Propane Prices

[Iowa Fox]

I think propane is produced partly from the processing of natural gas and partly from the refining of crude for gasoline. Maybe Dale has a better feeling for it since he works in that industry.

[Iowa Fox]

Here is an interesting article with a Wisconsin dealer mentioning exports doubling in June.

http://www.wiscnews.com/portagedaily...b9d16fdc4.html

[dragon813gt]

I think propane is produced partly from the processing of natural gas and partly from the refining of crude for gasoline.

It is produced both ways. W/ all the fracking there should be no shortage. But I guess there is no place to store it and no way to deliver it. It seems that our entire energy infrastructure is extremely fragile and ready to collapse at any moment. I can't wait :banghead:

[MT Gianni]

Here in ND. there is no reason for high prices thousands of oil wells and some of them burn off 1.5 million cubic feet a day no way or place for them to ship it I paid 2.30 a gallon last week.

Randy. some of those are natural gas and some of those are gasses so volatile they ignite when they hit the atmosphere.

[MtGun44]

LOTS of stuff going on in this market. Producers doing what they can to
get more out of the ground, lots of folks trying to stop them - just saw
"Bill Nye, the science guy" on Stossel BS his fool head off about global
warming. He was still selling the totally debunked fake "hockey stick
graph" that got Michael Mann in trouble for faking data. In any case,
there are people that believe ferverently that they need to do everything
possible to stop all production and burning of hydrocarbons. Stossel isn't
buying the manmade global warming fairy tale.

In the middle of this - there is more; recently heard that there has been
added demand for US LP gas overseas.

We are competing with everybody else in the world for this stuff.

Since our price has been low, there is an increase in exporting. If a wholesaler can
sell it here for $2 or ship it overseas for $3, what do you think will happen? I wish
that economics worked differently, but the seller will always seek the highest price
he can get, as the buyer will always seek the lowest price he can get.

Got my bill today for 350 gal fill up last week. $2.10/gallon - glad I got it then.

Bill

[cali4088]

LOTS of stuff going on in this market. Producers doing what they can to
get more out of the ground, lots of folks trying to stop them - just saw
"Bill Nye, the science guy" on Stossel BS his fool head off about global
warming. He was still selling the totally debunked fake "hockey stick
graph" that got Michael Mann in trouble for faking data. In any case,
there are people that believe ferverently that they need to do everything
possible to stop all production and burning of hydrocarbons. Stossel isn't
buying the manmade global warming fairy tale.

In the middle of this - there is more; recently heard that there has been
added demand for US LP gas overseas.

We are competing with everybody else in the world for this stuff.

Since our price has been low, there is an increase in exporting. If a wholesaler can
sell it here for $2 or ship it overseas for $3, what do you think will happen? I wish
that economics worked differently, but the seller will always seek the highest price
he can get, as the buyer will always seek the lowest price he can get.

Got my bill today for 350 gal fill up last week. $2.10/gallon - glad I got it then.

Bill

Europe is trying to get away from their reliance on Russia oil and Gas. Communist Russia has the worlds largest "state" owned natural gas "company", however, a natural gas BOOM in the United States the past decade or so has made the United States the largest Natural gas "producing nation", and on track to be that way for the foreseeable future. Continue to see an increase in natural gas cost in the USA for sometime and many markets warm up to USA reliance and stability in the LP field. Just dont see how come you think global warming is a fake. Of course people overblow it, but it is apparent. Seas rising, ice melting. once your landlocked ice goes in the ocean, it makes the water level rise. They have photos that show this happening for decades now and measurements. Do you know the devastation that would happen if the ocean was just 2 feet higher? How come Stossel never told you this? if you dont believe in Global warming the only logical explanation that would make sense is that you dont believe man has an impact on the environment, you believe God heals the earth and it all becomes re-newed every so often.

[btroj]

If the ocean was 2 feet higher it would be devastating- all the idiots in California would move east and those of use east of the Rockies would be doomed!

Is the climate changing? Who knows for sure. It certainly has in the past. Is it due to man? Who knows.

What I do know is that many of the proposals part forth by global warming "experts" rely heavily on energy sources that aren't efficient, are horribly expensive, and will never keep up with demand. What will happen if we follow these "experts" is a collapse of the global economy.

I find it interesting that Californians are so concerned with global warming yet they can't seem to get by without the very electricity and gasoline that they blame. How many in CA forgot the AC in the summer? How many use public transportation? How many drive a huge SUV hundreds of miles to attend an environmental rally yet fail to understand that they just did what they rail against others for doing?

I don't trust the "science" behind global warming at all. Too much has been shown to be bunk, manipulated data designed to achieve a political goal. Global warming "science" is much less about the climate and far more about global control of the populace. Manipulating the economy allows the government to better control the masses. Environmental concerns are an excellent way to decree emergency status giving far too much power to the government because the sheeple buy Into the BS.

[dragon813gt]

We don't know for a fact that we have caused the warming trend. The earth has natural cycles of warming and cooling. Do I think we caused it completely, no. Do I think we are contributing to it in some ways, absolutely. And while the Greenland shelf was melting along its entire surface area this past summer the Antarctic shelf is producing more ice then ever. Man can not possibly understand how what we put into the atmosphere effects the entire world. It's just to big and we just don't know.

[jcwit]

Check with Al Gore, he knows.

[Black Powder Bill]

Now I could be wrong, after all I was once before but propane isn't from fracking or drilling. It's a byproduct of refining gasoline.

Rick

No you are correct it is, from both gasoline and natural gas production. I wasn't so lazy to look at the equipment
I'd convert my appliances over to LNG.

But still with all the natural gas available what's the story? IMO dealers did not purchase enough fuel to get by the winter. This has happened to me 3 years running. The very least the dealer could have sent a post card stating the problem.

Here is the Wiki skinny:
Propane is produced as a by-product of two other processes, natural gas processing and petroleum refining. The processing of natural gas involves removal of butane, propane, and large amounts of ethane from the raw gas, in order to prevent condensation of these volatiles in natural gas pipelines. Additionally, oil refineries produce some propane as a by-product of cracking petroleum into gasoline or heating oil. The supply of propane cannot easily be adjusted to meet increased demand, because of the by-product nature of propane production. About 90% of U.S. propane is domestically produced.[citation needed] The United States imports about 10% of the propane consumed each year, with about 70% of that coming from Canada via pipeline and rail. The remaining 30% of imported propane comes to the United States from other sources via ocean transport.

After it is produced, North American propane is stored in huge salt caverns. Examples of these are Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta; Mont Belvieu, Texas and Conway, Kansas. These salt caverns were hollowed out in the 1940s,[8] and they can store 80,000,000 barrels (13,000,000 m3) or more of propane. When the propane is needed, much of it is shipped by pipelines to other areas of the United States. Propane is also shipped by truck, ship, barge, and railway to many U.S. areas.[9]

Properties and reactions[edit]

[cbrick]

Just dont see how come you think global warming is a fake. Of course people overblow it, but it is apparent. Seas rising, ice melting. once your landlocked ice goes in the ocean, it makes the water level rise. They have photos that show this happening for decades now and measurements.

Because it is fake that's why. Legitimate science has completely debunked man caused global warming repeatedly but the politically motivated news will not report it and the Kool-Aid drinkers devour the political absurdity.

Ice melting? Seas rising? More of the political BS to keep the Kool-Aid drinkers on board and inline. Legitimate science has proven via satellite photos that the ice caps both on top and bottom have been increasing over the past 10 years. Bet you didn't read about that in the comrade news though.

Is the climate changing? Yes, of course it is. Again using legitimate science and not political science the climate has never been stable at any time in the history of the planet. Never! Those that wish to have total and complete control over the population are attempting to use that to have that control. Those that don't believe in man made global warming (the majority by the way) are those that can actually think for themselves and not simply drink up the propaganda.

Rick

[cali4088]

Because it is fake that's why. Legitimate science has completely debunked man caused global warming repeatedly but the politically motivated news will not report it and the Kool-Aid drinkers devour the political absurdity.

Ice melting? Seas rising? More of the political BS to keep the Kool-Aid drinkers on board and inline. Legitimate science has proven via satellite photos that the ice caps both on top and bottom have been increasing over the past 10 years. Bet you didn't read about that in the comrade news though.

Is the climate changing? Yes, of course it is. Again using legitimate science and not political science the climate has never been stable at any time in the history of the planet. Never! Those that wish to have total and complete control over the population are attempting to use that to have that control. Those that don't believe in man made global warming (the majority by the way) are those that can actually think for themselves and not simply drink up the propaganda.

Rick

LOL, dude, you're the only person sipping the koolaid. You didnt say one thing that made sense or is backed up by science. All I heard was , legitimate science, the majority... You cannot provide ONE time lapse video of EXTENDING ice caps. They have been melting for a while and they have time lapses of it Go ask Nasa about your extended Ice caps. They'll laugh you out the room. Your comment was 100% false, and im thinking you made it up all on the spot. Its pretty easy to understand. Your "legitimate" science claim ='s More koolaid.


And the biggest whopper of them all. The "majority" doesn't believe in global warming. EVERY poll says other wise. But, Maybe the polls are rigged....LOL

[cbrick]

Have it your way, it'll make you feel all warm & fuzzy. Haven't met a liberal yet that could respond with anything other than insults in an attempt to belittle anyone that doesn't tow the line.

Rick

[sparky45]

Cali; you're a bit short on "evidence" yourself. Care to cite YOUR scientific data? Didn't think so, since you get most of your "data" from CNN and MSMBC.
Talk about a Whopper!
Sparky

[cali4088]

We don't know for a fact that we have caused the warming trend. The earth has natural cycles of warming and cooling. Do I think we caused it completely, no. Do I think we are contributing to it in some ways, absolutely. And while the Greenland shelf was melting along its entire surface area this past summer the Antarctic shelf is producing more ice then ever. Man can not possibly understand how what we put into the atmosphere effects the entire world. It's just to big and we just don't know.

I can agree with this to a certain degree. Just casting it off as some lie and legitimate science doesn't agree is just throwing out blatant lies. At least your commet had some moderation in it. It is true we dont know the extent of it, however, that ice extension in the winter time was nature basically telling us we cant predict everything. And you are absolutely right about the polar ice cap "producing" more, but not more than ever, and in time lapse videos it shows this, but what happens that summer is that it all melts away and then a little more than normal each year. Its a slow but steady decrease.

[cali4088]

Cali; you're a bit short on "evidence" yourself. Care to cite YOUR scientific data? Didn't think so, since you get most of your "data" from CNN and MSMBC.
Talk about a Whopper!
Sparky

Thanks for the laugh and your logical fallacy. I watch C-Span. So what was with your CNN and MSNBC clown of a comment? Is that your comeback, or better yet, your intro when talking to someone? I said look at a time lapse of the polar caps. Do you have the slightest CLUE as to what a time lapse is? Its a VIDEO. Learn what a video is and how its used as EVIDENCE, especially in a court setting. Lets here your whopper of a comeback little spark/flicker

[cali4088]

Have it your way, it'll make you feel all warm & fuzzy. Haven't met a liberal yet that could respond with anything other than insults in an attempt to belittle anyone that doesn't tow the line.

Rick

I'm sorry but isnt it you who keeps commenting on other post of mine with one word statements? Especially when I have never engaged in a conversation with you. Your whole comment was an insult to begin with. When I come back at you with the same intensity you came at me with, you run with your tail between your legs. Sounds like you're more liberal than more.

[cbrick]

Thanks for the laugh and your logical fallacy. I watch C-Span. So what was with your CNN and MSNBC clown of a comment? Is that your comeback, or better yet, your intro when talking to someone? I said look at a time lapse of the polar caps. Do you have the slightest CLUE as to what a time lapse is? Its a VIDEO. Learn what a video is and how its used as EVIDENCE, especially in a court setting. Lets here your whopper of a comeback little spark/flicker

hehe, thanks for so clearly proving my point. The only leg a liberal has to stand on is insulting those that don't tow the line. Simply must belittle them to make the liberal point of view sound intelligent.

Ok, your turn . . . Insult me. Again.

Rick

[cali4088]

hehe, thanks for so clearly proving my point. The only leg a liberal has to stand on is insulting those that don't tow the line. Simply must belittle them to make the liberal point of view sound intelligent.

Ok, your turn . . . Insult me. Again.

Rick

Seriously, maybe thinking isnt your strong point, Many conservatives believe in global warming as well, they just dont believe in the huge amount of hype that goes along with it. I think like them. YOU on the other hand dont believe in any of it. You are not the majority, "legitimate" scientist dont think like you. You can try all you want but YOU, and the small sliver called the "far"right are a LARGE MINORITY on this subject, not the other way around. Don't blame it on the liberals, the moderates, the R.I.N.O, the establishment, CNN, MSNBC . Your whole comment is an insult, not only to me but any other person that can think clearly. Ive wasted enough time in this thread. Maybe people believe it but to a certain degree. I can agree with them to a point. Cant agree with you though. You want evidence, go look up polar ice cap melt time lapse. Don't ask for evidence but provide none except a rant and getting your feelings hurt over the subject.

[cbrick]

For anyone trying to figure out what cali was referring to in post #105, it was this in the cast boolits forum. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...22-lead-ingots

I have a hunch that the ingots were smelted with the zinc not removed. Is there a way to confirm this?

Melt them, get the temperature really high, DO NOT SCOOP SCUM YET, FLUX FIRST, then clean. Lower temp and pour more ingots or cast. Problem solved.

To which I posted . . .

Huh? Rick

I guess that must have been an insult.

Maybe now we can return to the price of propane.

Rick