No need to resize 30-30s ?

[CJ8Ted]

I'm loading light 30-30 loads and the cases are cracking after about two or three reloads. I read on this site about not sizeing the cases as long as they chamber and this should make the cases last longer. I read about "flow" and think I am pushing the brass to the shoulder causing a crack between the shoulder and mouth that runs the direction of the case length. I am working up some cases that fully chambered in the gun. deprimmed them with 30-06 die so as not to tuch the 30-30 case (ie universal deprime) but the boolit falls right into the case.
I suspect I have to compress (resize) the mouth of the case so the deprimer stem resizes it but not push on the shoulder or side of the case.
If this is what I should do. I was thinking of backing the sizeing die up about a full turn so I don't size the whole case.
I hope I explaned my problem in words that could be understood. I am new to cast 30cal light loads and want my brass to last longer.

Thanks
Ted

[AlaskanGuy]

Looks like it is time for you to learn about annealing your brass.... There are many posts about it on this forum.. Just search around and you will find what you are looking for. Search for annealing....

AG

[NSB]

Annealing shouldn't be needed after two or three loadings. I've loaded bottle necked cases six or seven times without annealing and they didn't crack. Something else going on here.

[StratsMan]

You can also just neck-size your cases... There are decapping pins on neck size dies, so you can do it all in one stroke... But first, have checked to see that one of your fired cases actually fits back in the chamber??? May be a little tight if the neck is oversize, but it may fit fine!

[JSnover]

Three reloads is a lot less than I ever got from any brass (.357, .45acp, .30-06, .45-70). The other guys are right: minimal sizing and crimping is the way to go but there is something else wrong. Though your loads are 'light,' it might help if you share the data.

[williamwaco]

Something is wrong. Dunno what - but you should get at least 20 loads before those necks crack.
Can you measure the outside diameter of the case neck after resizing and before expanding. ( Remove the decapping rod and expander button before sizing. )
I suspect your die is severely overworking the neck.

On the other hand it could be old or just low quality cases.
How old are they and what brand are they.

You say they are "light" loads.
What do you consider "light"?

I use 150 grain Lee bullet with 10 grains Unique and RCBS dies and my cases last forever.

[jonas302]

Yes you can back up your die to hit the neck only you can smoke the neck with a lighter or magic marker to see what your doing or get a lee collet neck sizing die which is what I really like because no lubing

where did your brass come from is it really old or maybe stored by ammonia or something to make the brass brittle I have never lost a 30-30 case to cracking some have been loaded at least 15 times you can anneal and it helps case life too

I think something is way wrong and not just that you are full length sizing to crack that soon

[Bayou52]

If it were me, I would full length size the brass with a 30-30 FL sizing die. This die will neck size the case as well. I would then eliminate the guesswork and use a simple drop-in headspace gauge to confirm your case shoulder is properly placed. Then trim , if needed, then prime and charge. You should be good to go.

Especially if you are loading light loads, FL sizing should not significantly diminish case life.

Bayou52

[CJ8Ted]

Thank you all for the replys. Now for more info.
I do not anneal but I will read up on it with a search.
The cases are mix head stamp.
The age and storage are unknown most I would guess to be 30 to 40 years old. The brass looks good IMO I did not even toumble it.
The light loads I'm working up were TrailBoss under 150 gr and 8 gr of Unique with same 150gr.
I picked a fired case of the bin (I do not know if I fired it) I measured the mouth OD and got .3325 full length sized w/ RCBS FL from the 80s in great shape and it worked it down to .3180 Put the decap pin back in the die and got an OD measurement of .3295 This die in working the mouth over eleven thousands.

Ted

[nanuk]

I think you may have found your answer

[Big Z]

Annealing will also help. If you have a little propane hand torch and a small bowl of water you can do it. A bushing die will work the neck less. Take a peek at Redding Type S full length dies.

[CJ8Ted]

I think you may have found your answer

I set up my Hollywood with 30-06 and did the same measurement as I did for the RCBS 30-30 die. In the 30-06 it compressed the mouth down to less then one thou from finished dim. I'm thinking of boring and honeing the 30-30 die so it does not compress the mouth as much. Would this be the proper fix for the die?

Ted

[Big Z]

If you have the right tools, yes that'll work. Bushing dies are the same concept except you buy the bushings in .001" increments and they can be easily changed.

[williamwaco]

Thank you all for the replys. Now for more info.
I do not anneal but I will read up on it with a search.
The cases are mix head stamp.
The age and storage are unknown most I would guess to be 30 to 40 years old. The brass looks good IMO I did not even toumble it.
The light loads I'm working up were TrailBoss under 150 gr and 8 gr of Unique with same 150gr.
I picked a fired case of the bin (I do not know if I fired it) I measured the mouth OD and got .3325 full length sized w/ RCBS FL from the 80s in great shape and it worked it down to .3180 Put the decap pin back in the die and got an OD measurement of .3295 This die in working the mouth over eleven thousands.

Ted

Mine measured:
.331 as fired.
.316 resized
.324 expanded
Case wall = .008 so the Inside diameter as expanded is .324-.016 =.308 My bullets are sized to .311 and are not sized down during the seating procedure.

.3295 -.016 = 313 inside diameter are you sure about that .3295 measurement.
If that is correct it sounds like your expander is too large?

Of course it could be something else altogether.

[Mk42gunner]

With thirty to forty year old brass, I would anneal a few before doing anything to them. I bet that will solve your problem, since brass is supposed to age harden.

Robert

[Dave Bulla]

You say you picked up a case from the bin to measure but you don't know if you fired it. I think you need to do it again with a case you KNOW was fired in your gun. You might have a loose chamber which is allowing the case mouth to expand more than normal. If your die also sizes the case neck down more than normal, you've got two strikes against you. You really shouldn't have to worry about 30-30 cases wearing out. The pressure just isn't there. The age thing mentioned might be a factor though.

[CJ8Ted]

Mine measured:

.3295 -.016 = 313 inside diameter are you sure about that .3295 measurement.
If that is correct it sounds like your expander is too large?

Of course it could be something else altogether.

I took more meaurments of test case.
Wall thickness = .011
O.D. of case = .329
Expander button of die = .307 (I can slip into test case by hand with some force)
So test case post resizeing the math adds up--- .329 - (.011 x 2) = .307

I also checked the chamber of the gun, the mouth area was .3325 to .3330 cross ref. SAMMI specks and the gun shows to be good. or at leased I don't feal I have to measure it any closer.

Thank you all for your help, I have annealed the batch I was working on and plan to resize them with out modifying the die. I will keep
this batch separate and count how many reloads I get.

Ted

[bhn22]

Where are the cases cracking? I've only rarely seen 30-30s crack, and it was usually because of an oversized chamber, or a sizing issue. 30-30s headspace on the rim, and often times the case shoulder gets blown forward in sloppy chambers, then sized back in tight fitting dies. Since your brass is so old, you do need to suspect that it has age hardened. I would anneal all of it before trying to load again. Either that or sell it for scrap and buy new brass. Do you have a lot of it?

[jcwit]

I'm doing the same thing other than I'm using a lighter bullet, 113 gr. flat nose cast bullet, out of a Lee mould. In front of 12 grains of Trail Boss.

I full length resize my cases for the 1st loading, & after that only neck size till reloads get slightly hard to chamber, hasn't happened yet. Have reloaded no 12 to 15 times with no issues yet.

[ArchAngelCD]

With thirty to forty year old brass, I would anneal a few before doing anything to them. I bet that will solve your problem, since brass is supposed to age harden.

Robert

I agree, you never know how many reloads are on those cases originally plus the aging.