new reloader with a question or 2

[edadmartin]

Hello guys, hope this is in the correct area. Ive been doiing due diligence on reloading for 3 months, so I hope this isnt to stupid of a question.Im reloading 45 acp. on my lee 4 stage turret with factory crimp die Using accr# 2 with lazer cast 200gr swc..452. All bullets have been sized and all case length has been done to .897. so My question is, after loading up a few I noticed a small shaving of the bullet. how do I correct this? also I've noticed a slight dip in the casing diameter in the middle. At the mouth after crimping it measures .471--in the center it measures .469 and at the primer end rim it measure .472. The bullet drops into my 1911 barrel no problem and my evolution size guage it drops in all the way except for the last 1/16" near the rim. How do I correct these problems? which die needs adjusting? what should I look at next thanks

[OuchHot!]

Slightly more flair at the mouth may help with the shaving. I have shot quite a few (!) .45acp with the slight swelling at the boolit with no problems. The critical thing is that you verified the round drops in and is flush with the end of the barrel/chamber hood. In the old days, there were no carbide dies and we had to lube our cases but the dies fit the case/chamber profile better. Nowadays the carbide die sort of over sizes part of the system in the process of getting tight bullet fit. Did that make any sense? Short form is I am not sure that you have a problem other than the shaving.

[462]

Howdy.

1. The lead being shaved is because the case mouth hasn't been expanded enough to accept the boolit.
2. I suspect the boolit being smaller in the center may be due to the use of the handgun carbide factory crimp die. If you pull a boolit, you will see that it has been swaged down a substantial bit. Measuring with a micrometer (not a caliper) will show you exactly how much. Shooting those boolits will, almost assuredly, cause leading.
3. Keep in mind, reloading dies are manufactured with jacketed bullets in mind. Those of us who cast our own boolits, or buy them from mass casters, have to work around this fact.
4. I suggest that you purchase a copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd edition and read through it a few times. There are three other volumes, but the 3rd seems to have the larger following.

[OuchHot!]

462 said it better than me....agree in spades

[seaboltm]

I agree with 462. You have no real problems. a bit more bell on the case. Critical points of reloading after the case is sized: make sure the primer is fully seated, make sure the powder charge is correct, bullet should be seated so OAL is in the ball park of correct, the loaded product should chamber with ease. If you have those 4 things down, relax and shoot.

You are measuring your loads way more than I do. Also, I almost never trim straight walled cases. They really don't stretch that much.

[dbosman]

Shaving of a lead bullet usually means the case mouth hasn't been expanded enough. The case is literally shaving lead as you seat the bullet. Belling or flaring the case mouth a bit more should clean that up. A Lyman M die is made to expand the case mouth and the top sixteenth or so, a bit more which makes seating lead boolits or bullets easier.

I think every reloader makes some waspy looking loads early on.
One possibility is over sizing your brass which gets opened to about normal when you expand the neck. That will lead to a shorter life for the brass. Try backing out your sizing die. You may need to polish it out a bit. Waste a few cases practicing. Make up dummy rounds is not a waste of resources.

[Bad Water Bill]

Pay attention to almost all of the above advice.

Now remember you are NOT wasting that brass because that is the price of learning.

Pay it and keep being careful. It is a great hobby.

[edadmartin]

Thanks guys Im thinking on the M die, and the lyman manual is on order already. I did some case bell testing this AM just to see how much more bell each quarter turn gave me, I think Im good now.
One question I didn't ask, was why 2 different sizes of lead swc. I have .451 and .452. Im starting with using only .452.
Bad water bill , glad to hear about you getting the CCW laws changed. Here in Colorado we recalled 2 morons and another just quit. Doesn't it really show how very important voting is ??
462 you mentioned that the dip in my casing could be from the factory crimp die.Did you mean that Im over crimping or that its just what happens using that die??
Ill post what I find in a day or 2 thanks for the help. off to make dummy rounds.

[beezapilot]

Dillon and Brownells (probably Mid-South as well) both offer a block that is cut with a chamber reamer, it is a wonderful tool to check to insure that sem-auto rounds will chamber. I catch about one bad round per 200, I'd rather catch it watching Netflix in the shop than have a malfunction at the range....

[Firebricker]

Your different size boolits is for fitting a particular barrel better. The standard size jacketed bullet for .45 acp is .451 with lead it is common practice to size your boolits .001 over sized. To custom tailor your boolits for a particular gun you would slug the barrel to find you exact diameter and size .001 over. For most .45 acp your just fine starting out with .452 as long as your loaded rounds chamber with no issue. That should help you a little but I did not explain that nearly as well as other members will but hope it helps. FB

[trixter]

Hello guys, hope this is in the correct area. Ive been doiing due diligence on reloading for 3 months, so I hope this isnt to stupid of a question.Im reloading 45 acp. on my lee 4 stage turret with factory crimp die Using accr# 2 with lazer cast 200gr swc..452. All bullets have been sized and all case length has been done to .897. so My question is, after loading up a few I noticed a small shaving of the bullet. how do I correct this? also I've noticed a slight dip in the casing diameter in the middle. At the mouth after crimping it measures .471--in the center it measures .469 and at the primer end rim it measure .472. The bullet drops into my 1911 barrel no problem and my evolution size guage it drops in all the way except for the last 1/16" near the rim. How do I correct these problems? which die needs adjusting? what should I look at next thanks

Shaving lead: re-adjust your 'Powder' die very carefully until you can see a definite flare in the mouth.

If your reloads will drop into the actual barrel of your gun to the proper depth, then when you turn it upside down, it falls out again by itself it is probably OK. Re adjust your crimping die until this happens all of the time. I would not be too concerned with 'measurements' unless you are reloading for several different guns. I have the Lyman case gauge and they fall into it perfectly and fall out with out any help. They measure .468 with my caliper ( I thought this was too small, but they work perfectly). Hope this helps.

[Rich/WIS]

Your Lee dies should have an expander die, you just need to adjust it. You mentioned your cases are all same length, if you trimmed them did you chamfer the mouths, trimming can leave a wire edge on the cartridge mouth.

[edadmartin]

yes, the lee length trimmer has a chamfer built in and Im very anal about looking at each casing.
I pulled the barrels out of my springfield 1911 and my glock and the rounds do drop in and out no problem, they only hang up in my hornaday guage, right at the rim about 1/16" from seating fully.Since this is related Ill ask isnt an M die only for rifle casings? and when would I want to use a lee .001 undersized sizing/deprime die,I have the stock one as well as a undersized one????

[462]

Lyman M-dies are available for both handgun and rifle cartridges. They come in two body lengths -- M1 for handgun and the shorter rifle cartridges, and M2 for the longer rifle cartridges. The advantage that M-die have over Lee's mouth flaring die (it does not expand the neck) is that the length of the neck is sized to some dimension smaller that the boolit's diameter, which assures uniform neck tension and eliminates the possibility of a too small neck swaging a boolit. Additionally, the M-die forms a "step" in the case mouth that is slightly larger than boolit diameter, which allows the boolit to sit in the case with proper alignment, squarely and securely. A flaring die opens the case mouth but the boolit will not be properly aligned to the case, and can enter it as some odd angle other than parallel. A boolit that sits in a case that has been expanded with an M-die will not move about, while one sitting in a flared mouth will wobble about.

For my cast boolits, the expander plugs are generally too small so I've had custom plugs made. Forum member Buckshot makes them to your specifications, his price is more than fair, and the dimensions are spot on. I prefer the first dimension to be .001" to .002" smaller than the boolit diameter and as long as the boolit length that is inside the case -- handgun -- or the length of the neck -- rifle. The second dimension -- or step -- I prefer to be .001" larger that boolit base diameter.

After re-reading your opening post, I may have jumped the gun (no pun intended) on the cause of the case's smaller section. A picture would be a great help.

[gray wolf]

The case will measure larger around the area that contains the bullet, the inside diameter of the case is smaller than the bullet diameter. Bullet goes in and swells the case slightly. Not a problem unless you seat a bullet crooked and make an ugly bulge on one side. Still if it chambers it will shoot, up to the loader if he wants to pull the bullet and start over.
Case diameter down near the case head is thicker and will show a slight difference in diameter, it's normal,
dose it chamber ? I think it will. As for trimming 45 ACP brass ? I understand as a new re-loader that you want things to be as perfect as possible and your commended for that. But trust me it's a waste of time, 45 ACP brass will get shorter and not longer. after a few firings most will be a little different but none will be longer. It's the way it is in the 45 ACP world, don't sweat it. As long as you get a usable taper crimp your good to go.
Always check your dummy rounds for function in the Mag. SWC will not be a problem, RN bullets you can most time set the OAL so they clear the front of the mag. and that will be fine, DO they chamber ? and do they function ? And always be sure you can cycle a round a few times without getting bullet set back ( bullet gets driven deeper into the case = set back )
It has been said to set the OAL for a SWC so the bullet chambers with the back of the case even or .002 below the back top of the barrel, the barrel hood. Then do the plunk test, drop a bullet in (plunk ) invert the barrel and the bullet falls out under it's own weight (plunk) To do this for a SWC, seat a bullet (dummy round) long and try it in your barrel, but first remove some of the case flare, go easy into the crimp die, if you don't the case will hang up in the chamber.
The case will not seat even with the barrel hood cause the bullet is seated out to far, that's good it's what we want at this point. Now keep seating the bullet in a little at a time until the back of the case is even with the barrel hood.
That is your OAL for that bullet. The cartridge is now head spacing off the exposed lead at the front of the bullet.
It is just contacting the the rifling lead. This is a very respected way to set OAL for a SWC bullet. It will also ensure the case sits in the same place in the chamber and your primer strikes will be the same. 45 ACP in a perfect world head spaces on the case rim. Unless everything is perfect and it's most times not. it's the extractor holding the case in position. the case can drive forward within the wiggle room of the extractor and will ultimately stop it's forward movement when the case hits the end of the chamber. drop an empty case into the chamber of your pistol and see how far it enters the chamber. You will find that a mixed bag of brass will show many different visuals of how they relate to the barrel hood.
Confused yet ? don't be. As for the Lee FCD for the 45 ACP ? mine looks as good as it did the day I got it, why ? cause it's never been in the press, I don't and wont use it. It's fine for jacketed ammo but will most time reduce the size of your bullets unless they are very hard. Confirm the size of some of your bullets with a good Mic. caliper if that is all you have,
Are they .452 ? now make up a dummy round, seat the bullet and crimp it, pull the bullet and measure it, is it still .452.
If it is not you will probly lead the barrel. Millions of 45 ACP have been loaded for 45 1911 and 1911-A1 pistols without the Lee FCD. Your questions as a new reloader are all great questions, I wish more new people would express the same desire to be accurate and want to now why things happen and how to correct what needs to be corrected.

Sam

[edadmartin]

whoa ! . Gray wolf, thanks for taking the time to explain. You answered all the questions I wondered about plus a couple I hadn't even contemplated. Im pasting this info into my note book.
Im shooting the 20 rounds Ive loaded tomorrow, seems like everyone that responded was on the same page with the answers so I feel I can shoot the rounds Ive loaded. Wouldn't it be cool if all my first run rounds fired without any malfunction? Ill will be back with more questions I'm sure. I'm going to do those dummy load tests tomorrow too . I really wondered how to get the correct length for any particular hand gun shooting swc , thats awesome. Thanks to everyone, seems like a great community here.

[gray wolf]

Safety glasses--------Don't leave home without them.

[edadmartin]

ok I'm red faced. I bought a rcbs collet puller with the .451 collet so I could do some testing and it doesnt pull cast swc bullets, just slips off. ok ok laugh get it all out. LOL So is there no way except to use the hammer type puller?

[Firebricker]

Get a inertia hammer type puller it will be a lot more versatile. FB
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/215...-bullet-puller

[JSAND]

Yep, hard to beat the inertia type puller for cast removal. Keep a watchful eye on your barrell when shooting those as many stated they have been surely sized down, leading may follow. Good Luck, Happy shooting and re-loading.