.45ACP recoil spring??

[exile]

I just bought a 16 pound and a 14 pound spring directly from Wolff, could not find them anywhere else.

[mikeym1a]

Mikeym1a et al.

I recently came into an unfired Auto Ordnance 1911 with a note on the box saying trigger is 4.5#. Knowing little or nothing about this or any 1911 45 Semi, did you have any troubles with feeding with yours? I have been sitting on this thing since last fall trying to decide what to do with it.

As with anything I shoot, it has to shoot cast to make me happy and over the years I have noted that some 1911s do not like feeding cast without a bit of fiddling.

If I wanted to do much fiddling with a gun, it would be making a performer out of a wheel gun or bolt gun.

Mine was bought over 30 years ago. New in box. I started out with hardball, and due to funds constraints, I switched to cast boolits, WW's. Actually 10lbs WW to 1lb 50/50. Lee 200gr semiwadcutter/microgroove, LLA lubed. I have never had a failure to feed or fire with any load I have put through the gun. Gee. Just looking at this, it doesn't seem like 30 years. But my kids are all in their 30's, and I taught them to shoot it as soon as they were big enough to hold it properly. Since they left home, I haven't shot all that much, just once in a while. While they were home, during the summer, we'd be out shooting at least every other weekend, several hundred rounds each time. I guess I've put 3,000-4,000 rds through the .45. Maybe time to change the recoil spring. As far as my cast boolit load is concerned, never had any problem with leading. I knew nothing about boolit fit or seal. I cast them, lubed them, loaded them, and shot them. And I generally hit the tin cans I was shooting at. (instant gratification, seeing the can dance!) Recently checked the barrel of the .45 & my .32. No leading. I guess I got lucky.

[nicholst55]

For some forgotten reason, I installed a recoil buffer in my 1911 before I went overseas. I was probably shooting some rather stout ammo and felt that I needed it. Fast forward four years to my return to the States, and I couldn't figure out why the gun was suffering maybe 50% feed failures with factory hardball per magazine. Upon disassembly I saw the recoil buffer in there, and immediately removed it. All is right with the world again and my 1911 runs flawlessly!

I honestly can't remember why I installed the stupid thing in the first place, and I never will again. They are totally useless and akin to snake oil IMHO.

[mikeym1a]

This is a pic of my reloads. As I said, it's the Lee 200gr semi-wadcutter/microgroove. LLA lubed. Don't remember what the load was. I'd have to find my loading manual for the specifics. But, I do remember that it was under the max listed in the Speer manual I was using at the time. The profile is very similar to the H&G that was shown on the last page. Like I said, I have never had a failure to chamber with this boolit. The one doesn't look like the other. The light one is a Blazer hull. It is stamped N/R, for Not Reloadable. You'll remember that they were berdan primed. I took that N/R as a challenge. I reasoned that the primer pocket would be the same size as the boxer, since it was made by CCI. So, I used a small punch, and punched the center of the web in the case head, used a leetle drill bit to start, then a bit larger one to bring it out to the primer punch size, after getting the hole deep enough, I used a lee loader deprimer to punch it out. I then resized the case, tried to seat a primer, and was successful. I have about 200 of these hulls which have been reloaded 4 or 5 times each, and they show no signs of deterioration. One day I picked up a box of what I thought was .45 empties, and opened it, and it was the Blazer hull reloads, ready to go. I was surprised how light the blazers were compared to the brass hulls.

[mikeym1a]

I change out my 16# springs when the slide starts feeling sloppy. Can't really explain but it doesn't feel right. If I'd keep track of how many rounds go thru the gun I would change them every 3 to 4K rounds.

I have to admit that a lot of what was said on this page was over my head, but, I did gather two things. 1) It would be prudent to change the recoil spring very 3,000 - 4,000 rds, and I have put about that many through it. and 2) the recoil buffer is undesirable. So, I'll get another recoil spring, and will not get a recoil buffer. Speaking of recoil buffers, Quite some time ago, I bought my daughter a Davis .32 auto. We fired it quite a bit, and put about 1,000 rds through it. Cracks appeared in the slide at the muzzle. I guess my hand loads were a bit too much for it. So, I found her a Davis .380. It appeared to have the same frame, and slide, but had a spring loaded recoil buffer for the slide to bounce on at the end of travel. We fired that gun on one occasion. Less than half a box of cartridges. We had 8 jams or failure to feeds. It went back into the box and has stayed there. I actually liked the little gun, it was just too lightly built. And it seemed that the recoil buffer was what caused the jamming. it's still in its box, in a box under the bed. I occasionally get the urge to tinker with it, but, I put it away when the urge stops. I really don't like having a gun I can't shoot, even though I might not. It's the principal of the thing.

[mikeym1a]

For some forgotten reason, I installed a recoil buffer in my 1911 before I went overseas. I was probably shooting some rather stout ammo and felt that I needed it. Fast forward four years to my return to the States, and I couldn't figure out why the gun was suffering maybe 50% feed failures with factory hardball per magazine. Upon disassembly I saw the recoil buffer in there, and immediately removed it. All is right with the world again and my 1911 runs flawlessly!

I honestly can't remember why I installed the stupid thing in the first place, and I never will again. They are totally useless and akin to snake oil IMHO.

Now that I have thought about it some, some memories have returned. At one time they were recommended by someone to lessen the battering that the gun took in normal operation. I never bought one back then, nor did I buy the recoil spring guide, which I thought looked silly. Guess I'm glad I never did. I'll learn from your experience. Thanks!

[MtGun44]

Shot hundreds of thousands of rounds thru 1911s with shock buffs and never
had one "tie up the gun". Perhaps it is possible, but not a serious problem, IME.

Leave the springs alone.

Bill

[LuvMy1911]

Just starting to cast for my 1911... It seems very happy with the lee 452-200-sw and 50/50 COWW/pure lead running just a little slower than factory 200 grain ammo. The mold uses the regular lube (not LLA).

Good luck with your spring decision... most knowledgable folks have tried to convince me to not change from stock config the 1911 (I've always regretted ignoring that advice the two times I did)

[Jammersix]

There is no free lunch in engineering. You change something, you will have an effect on something else.

The recoil spring is not there to absorb recoil, in spite of it's name. Most of the recoil is absorbed by the mainspring.

It's one thing to change components when you know exactly what you're doing, how the weapon works, where you are, where you want to go and how you want to get there, but if that isn't the case, you're going to run into unintended consequences.

How the 1911 works is not a mystery. It's been documented for a century.

But nothing is free.

Fishing lures are not designed to catch fish. They're designed to catch fishermen. Shock buffs are fishing lures, will jam your weapon, and do nothing for it.

[MtGun44]

In 30+ yrs of IPSC, never saw a shock buff "jam your gun". I have hundreds of thousands of rounds
through many 1911s with shock buffs and never had one tie up a gun. They DO shorten the
cycle of the gun slightly, and if you have something else wrong with the gun or mag system, or
ammo, I suppose you might have issues, I never have. They DO minimize the sharpness of the impact on
the frame of the slide at the end.

Keep the springs stock, and if you want to run a shock buff, it won't hurt anything. Check it
every so often (I used to change them every 5000 rds or so, and they were VERY beat at that
point, should probably be changed more often) and change when it is getting beat up pretty
bad.

Are they a "must have" piece of gear? NO, but I do believe that for guns that are shot a LOT,
and I mean 10,000 rds per year or more, they will minimize the wear and tear. I have several
1911s that have well north of 80,000 rounds and are in great shape. I put some of this up to
the shock buffs, but MOSTLY because the 1911 design is superior and I always lube the gun every time
before a match or practice session.

Bill

[Forrest r]

I've used the shock buffers for decades in several different 1911's/1911 calibers & never had a problem with them. But then again I change my recoil spring every 3,000 to 3,500 rounds.

While I'm thinking about recoil springs:
I used to own/shoot a steel framed 70 series colt commander. When I'd shoot target loads in it (452460/hg 68's) I'd use the same standard 10# springs that I'd use in my full size 1911's. Never had any,
feeding problems
stripping the round out of the factory or aftermarket mags
ftf's
fte's
Nothing ran like a top!!!!
I kept hitting the loud button & it kept going bang.
Go figure.

[dnotarianni]

I just called up John Browning and told him about different springs and buffers and wanted his opinion. All I got was silence for an answer. Guess you should stick with 16 lbs and no buffer.

Dave

[AviatorTroy]

I do use a Wilson Combat buffer in a Range Officer but its only a target pistol, I don't carry with it, compete with it, and I change them often. Also run the Wilson Combat mags never found a better one!

One caveat on the buffer, I also have a Star PD and it had a buffer from the factory, which long ago disintigrated. I had to make a new one from a WC buffer, a piece of brass tubing, and a spring, because the original one was nothing like the new ones. To each his own...

[yeahbub]

I'll second MtGun44 and Forrest's experiences with shock buffs. They've given me good service in most I've tried them in, softening the blow of the slide against the frame. As noted, they will shorten slide travel .060 or .080 and this may be a consideration in some 1911's with short travel, as the slide may not want to lock open after the last round. One foreign-made 1911 I played with had overly generous slide travel and could easily accommodate 2 shock buffs and the slide locks back just fine. One big help with shock buff longevity is to add a .030 steel washer between the spring and the buff, to distribute the spring's force and the slide's impact over the entire surface of the urethane. This also prevents the spring biting into or through it over time, as has been noted on one "closet queen", so they may well be considered a perishable item, unlike the 1911 itself.

As for heavier springs, I agree with the comments regarding unnecessarily battering the pistol with the added stored energy. I used an 18 lb. spring for some years and never had any negative repercussions, but others have put 20 and 22 lb. spring in them which, in one case, bent the barrel bushing tab forward and bound the barrel. Instant show stopper. That fellow was convinced to use the original spring very quickly.

[375RUGER]

On an auto ordnance you may end up replacing it soon anyway. HAD to replace the spring, sear, and hammer on SWMBO AO after only a few hundred rounds. Material is way too soft. It is her carry gun, I'm glad it didn't malfunction in time of need. She has a new Kimber on the way now and this AO can just be a plinker.

[brasshog]

I carried my Springfield "Enhanced" model for ten years before I upgraded on everything. Understand that I carried this gun every single day for ten years (wife hated the 1911 holes in my shirts) and since I worked at a range on the weekends she saw alot of action. I did not "need" to change anything but I wanted to. She (Sue-Anne) got a Dwyer Group Gripper the day that I bought here along with Wilson buffs. Whe I upgraded she got a Wolf 25lb spring amongst everything else. Did she need it ? Nope but she will shove a projectile inside a case some and fire it if she doesn't like the profile of the bullet. She will collapse a truncated hollow point if you load her +1 too many times. There is no frame battering at all even with my sensible hog loads or her steady diet of 230gr Gold Dots. Only the frame (cut for memory groove beaver tail), slide, barrel and sights remain somewhat (dehorned) original now. She was "upgraded" almost 12 years ago and to this day has NEVER failed to fire. Not once. EVER. Hence why she is now retired and has the most honorable of firearm positions in my home. The nightstand. After 20+ years of "duty" it is Sue-Anne that I trust with my life at 2am . My 2 cents.

P.S.-She sleeps in her first dress that I bought for her those long years ago. A Bianchi #5 aside 10 loaded Wilson combat mags.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I thought the reason for a lighter recoil in the 1911 was to help the pistol function with target loads. Conversely, would't the gun need a stronger spring for more powerful loads? Just aski'n. I know next to nothing on the subject. I do know that the only 1911 I have ever owned that would function with cast bullets was the one I got throught the DCM. It was a WWI Colt and it never jammed with simi wadcutters.

[MtGun44]

The factory 230 ball ammo IS the "stronger load" - and needs a 16 lb spring. If you are
going to overload the gun - then you are going to break stuff eventually and a heavier
spring isn't going to lower the loads, and actually increases the closing load on the barrel
lugs, feet and link.

Bill