Use of Gas Checks for the "Inverted Loading Method"

[jmort]

First off, I apologize if this was previously discussed. Could not find a prior thread, but that means nothing. I was talking to Charles Darnall aka FreeChex manufacturer, and I inquired about getting a "plain base" check maker a la Pat Marlin's plain base check maker. I only use hand presses so FreeChex was only option. I only load with hand tools and hand presses. He had some interesting comments about the concept of plain base gas checks which pretty much sum-up my feelings, that they are "Unicorns", my word not his. By definition "squishing/swaging" a concentric plain base bullet down will cause deformation. I think the plain base check users may be fooling themselves and wasting time. Square peg/round hole. Now to his solution, and/or the solution of one of his customers, use the gas check for the "inverted loading method" - his term. His testing, and his customer's testing, show no leading. He fired at large "targets/cardboard" to see if the checks co-witnessed and there was no sign of the check. One theory is that the bullet/check stick together somehow, possibly fused by powder gas or otherwise. Regardless, it seems to be an interesting area for exploration. He did caution, in his opinion, that the check should be carefully seated upside down in the case and level and would work best in straight- walled cartridges or at least case with sufficient neck. I think it is an area that might be quite fruitful as the upside down check would act as a gas check or over powder "card" or as a hollow base bullet. The check would need a slight flair to stay in place. It appears the idea works, and works well, and I would like to see a sticky for development of this idea. I only have plain base molds and wanted to up the ante without having to buy new molds. I got the FreeChex II, the Lee Loader of check makers, have hammer, will travel. Now I would like to see what can be done. I believe the idea will be a great advantage in lead fouling prevention, accuracy, and economy. Would like to see this thread as a "Sticky"
Really looking forward to any input and additional posts.

[Sagebrush7]

I have shot hundreds of Plain base .457,.458 ,459 and 460 bullets in two 1895 Marlins, Winchester .458 Magnum. Range from 100 to 200 yards of my bench with no measurable difference in groups from gas checked and plain base 45/70 bullets with milk carton punched wads. I can have all the 45/70 checks I want but still use my waxed cardboard wads pushed tightly over IMR 3031. I seat most bullets snugly over the powder leaving no air space. After a shooting session shoot a couple gas checked bullets to clean the barrel. Charlie is right about the reversed checks in straight wall cases .Do not try this in bottle neck cartridges.

[jmort]

Your "over powder card" is a good idea and fits in with this thread.

[fish0123]

I use that method all the time, it works great and stops leading in my 9mm. There is no need for a "plain based" gas check if you have the tooling to make regular checks with. Just flare the case mouth slightly more than you normally would, invert the gas check and place the gas check into the case mouth, then seat the bullet as normal. A gas check doesn't even need to be attached to the base of the bullet to do it's job, but amazingly I have found that the gas checks often do stay on after leaving the muzzle.

Of course, they have to be the appropriate size. I use my 357 gas checks (which are designed to be used with 35 cal rifles with a gas check shank) in my 9mm. There is nothing fancy needed for the material. I just use 0.008" roof flashing material.

Try it, it works.

[jmort]

"I use that method all the time, it works great and stops leading in my 9mm. There is no need for a "plain based" gas check"

This is good info. I'm thinking that even bullets that would normally lead a bore due to poor fit and max loads with plain base will work with this method. Thank you fish0123 for the info/post.

[fish0123]

Yeah that's the great thing about using gas checks in pistol calibers. Technically you shouldn't need a gas check for 9mm or other high pressure rounds but after much experimentation with loads, bullet molds, sizes, etc, I found it easier to just stick a gas check in there and be done with it.

Sometimes I use a bullet or other "tool" that is the same size as my bullet to help seat the gas check into the case mouth. It is important to not put the gas check into the case mouth crooked, so having an appropriate sized tool to help push the check in helps. I use the .356 steel rod that comes with the lee sizing kit for this.

If you wanted to speed up the reloading process and eliminate having to stop and fiddle with pushing the check in, you could use a second powder charge die without the powder dispenser attached. This would simply use the expander plug to push the check into the case perfectly straight every time.

Good luck and have fun.

[jmort]

"It is important to not put the gas check into the case mouth crooked, so having an appropriate sized tool to help push the check in helps. I use the .356 steel rod that comes with the lee sizing kit for this."

Charles emphasized that point to me as well. Gas check must be level/at right angle. You have some very good ideas/practices.This method should also work for those who want to shoot a gas check bullet design without seating check, just inverting it.