Cast boolits fire hazard

[Idz]

Military uses lots of tracers rounds, exploding shells, and steel core penetrater rounds, they all can start fires. Shoot a steel core at a rock and you can make hot sparks. Hit the rock with lead or copper and you may be able to get a cold spark if everything is just right.

To create a hot spark you have to peel off a speck of steel and heat it up to its ignition point. The burning steel provides the energy to ignite the tinder. The impact provides the frictional energy to ignite the steel speck as a hot spark. With other materials you can also produce a cold spark that you can see but lacks enough energy to ignite tinder (for 'non-sparking' tools they actually test this by using carbon disulphide which is vastly easier to ignite than tinder).

If you doubt the OSHA, FS, DOD, and other scientists who study this then you should get some tinder, a rock, and some lead and copper hammers and see if you can get get a fire going. That its really hard to do makes logical sense since rocks are always falling off cliffs and banging into each other and yet you don't see the entire country ablaze because of it.

P.S. An interesting tidbit you learn in Wildland Firefighting school is that all fires are presumed Human Caused unless it can be proven otherwise.

[Win94ae]

Here is where I cut the chain on my target and it produced sparks, (or what have you,) that could have caused a fire.



That was using jacketed hunting bullets.

[dilly]

They closed the forest to shooting in the 60's because you drove there burning leaded gas. Only shoot at approved ranges now. Can not shoot ammo that is attracked to magnets. People doing the checking can't tell if the projectile or case is magnetic. My recent experience with Forest Service personel is that they are not outdoorsmen or women. They have a tree hugger degrees and are just interested in keeping their immediate boss happy. It the 80's the Forest Service had reasonable people that wanted the average citizen to enjoy the Forest. Now they just worry, "What if some one gets hurt?"

You are absolutely right about that. My father was a forester for about 40 years, and just retired a few years ago. He was so sick of how the Forest Service had become a refuge for liberal, tree hugging, nature worshiping ignorance by the the time he retired.

Another thing people seem to overlook about forest fires is that they absolutely WILL happen eventually. It's a natural process, and a law of nature. The longer you wait, the hotter it burns. In some ways we need less fire prevention, and more (smarter) fire management. If you think about it, any situation in which one tiny spark from a bullet sets the forest ablaze is a situation in which the forest is going to light up for one of a million other reasons before long anyway.

Right now we've got so many trees in the west dead from bark beetles (the trees were more susceptible because of a draught) that we're in for a lot of nasty fires. Whether it's campers, smokers, shooters, or lightningyou can't really prevent some of these things.

[44man]

My brother recently retired as a forester for the DoD. He has fought fires caused by shooting guns on military ranges his entire career. The M16 is probably the least offensive gun in this regard, yet it starts fires every year when the fuel is dry. The danger is real.

They shoot millions of tracers and all kinds of stuff.

[Cmemiss]

As a retired firefighter I can only add two things. 1. How many road signs have you seen shot up? 2. Murphy was an optimist.

[MtGun44]

Never ever even considered shooting a road sign. Even as a teenager I thought
this was the worst kind if irresponsible stupidity.

Milspec 5.56 ammo is often M855, with a tiny steel tip insert or M855A1 with a big steel tip.
M193 is all copper alloy and lead. The first two could clearly cause a spark, and therefore a fire.
Lead boolit pistol ammo, no way. Copper jacketed lead, I'd need a LOT of solid proof.
We use bronze tools in explosives environments because they are non-sparking. Doubt that
copper alloys can spark under any conditions.

Bill

[Nickle]

I retired from the automotive trade. Non-sparking hammers will have lead or aluminum faces. Copper would work too.

Now, I can see limiting usage, because there's always going to be some idiot that just doesn't have a clue that he's got steel core bullets, or even tracers.

I was a .mil employee, not .gov, and I agree with the statements made about liberal morons working for them. But, ask yourself what the political background of someone that gets a higher degree in forestry is. I know a couple of conservatives that got into forestry, but they are a minority.

[Harter66]

Currently,at least on the ammo depot I worked on for 17yr the ''brass'' tools are barillium,it is bronze colored but much more durable,for example pry/crow bars, ballpeen hammers, and sockets are used for years......decades. Lots of them are stamped USN , the contractor took over in 1980.

I've seen impact sparks w/lead/copper bullets but it was more likely from the massive amounts of iron,tungstun,iron pyrite, mangenese etc in the decomposed granite and magma/lava that makes up 95% of the earth here.

I miss read automotive for ammunition in the above post.

[Lance Boyle]

My brother recently retired as a forester for the DoD. He has fought fires caused by shooting guns on military ranges his entire career. The M16 is probably the least offensive gun in this regard, yet it starts fires every year when the fuel is dry. The danger is real.

ummm, yeah tracers, even if you shoot into a berm, they can riccochet off and into the brush or just burn on the surface of the berm. I've been downrange more than once as a machine gunner to put out brush fires from our tracers.

ETA- yeah, I work for a state agency of the same type. In my time I've seen cool older vets who got their degrees after military service replaced by the new dope smoking hippie types. You want to talk about people throwing forth completely unreasonably regulations because they said so.

[leadman]

WE have had many fires caused by some moron shooting in the desert of forests here in Az. On guy was shooting the "flamethrower" shotgun rounds in the woods.
We even had a fire on the public range just behind the backstop. Probably a steel jacket or core. They have a water truck on site so it only took 15 minutes or so to get it out.
The biggest fire in AZ. was caused by 2 young guys that left their campfire burning when they left. Over 500,000 acres! The next larcgest was actually 2 fires that combined, one set by a stranded motorist and the other by a fire fighter that wanted some work.

[Nickle]

Yup, I do agree that campfires are much more likely to cause trouble.

First off, the end user is far more likely to be ignorant.

Secondly, it's already a fire, just needs to spread, not start.

And Lance, I'm a couple hundred miles east of you.

[Mal Paso]

One of the worst forest fires here was started by some campers the read somewhere, that it was Environmentally Correct to Burn Your Toilet Paper.

Does make me smile imagining them trying to stomp it out.

[Shiloh]

Seem I read about a fellow who wanted to freelance an article to one of the gun mags years ago. The scenario was gas cans on the back of an off road vehicle.

He tried shooting jerry cans full of gas, partially full and empty. He had many cans and couldn't get one to catch fire or exoplode. The editors were not interested as nothing happened.

Shiloh

[BAGTIC]

Years ago Johnny Cash and June Carter got sued in California because they drove their motor home over tall dry grass which caught fire, There are lots of ways to cause a fire but I imagine shooters is one of the least likely. I grew up in California and I recall instances where wildfires were attributed to the sun shining through a piece of broken glass.

[mdi]

it's called ZERO tolerance.
see how it works is instead of actually having to think you just ban everything.

+1!
Yep, they did it in the buzzard area of CA too...

[Green Frog]

I still wonder what it is about some shooters that they have to ignore simple safety considerations. Furthermore, (I'm in rant mode here), they always seem to be the ones that won't join and use a club range - they'd rather drive to heck-and-gone to some remote site where they can make a mess and leave it for someone else to pick up. And do they ever! </rant>

Well, around here they join clubs and trash the range. I keep telling them if they want to shoot at a place like a dump to please go shoot at the dump, but they're too *#@%# stupid to take a hint! Of course they never show up for work days, or if they do ask when we'll be finished so they can shoot!

Froggie

[donald duck]

I am not a fan of shooting in our forests, a controlled rifle or pistol range is much safer. Also we do not want to give the FS evEn a slim chance to blame shooters. ThEy are just another government org. that is out of control. Why did they not call out the Air force Tanker planes in the Arizona fires until two days after 19 Brave Firefighters Died. The higher ups need to be fired and replaced by troops on the ground. Now we learn our commander in chief says no Fourth of July celebrations on military bases. I thinkEegypt has the right idea and I personally would like to see a coup here in the US. Enough of this muslim dictator. Out with obama!!! NOw!!

[Mal Paso]

+1!
Yep, they did it in the buzzard area of CA too...

I live in that Buzzard Area and I won't leave a Boolit outside unprotected. Those Condors can spot a Boolit from 1500 feet, swoop down, and your Boolits are gone in seconds. Loaded Ammo isn't safe either. That Beak was designed to crack cartridges. I move my ammo around in plane brown boxes so they don't get wise. And I don't leave any reloading supplies where they can be seen from a window. A bird that size could break into my place easily.

[Harter66]

Holy derailment donald duck ...........

[303Guy]

Those Condors can spot a Boolit from 1500 feet, swoop down, and your Boolits are gone in seconds.

So, are you saying the hype about the condors is not hype but real fact? I wish people who make up strange rules would come out with an explanation so we know where they are coming from.

I've seen many, many fires started by matches or cigarette butts from a car. The matches were used to deliberately set fire to dry grass each autumn and winter. Dropped cig butts are a give away when the fire starts from the side of the road. I lived in a part of the world where the hunting months were the dry months and I never heard of a fire started by a fired bullet. Unattended camp fires, yes. Fires not properly put out after the campers/picnickers had left, yes. And the suns rays being focused through glass. And carelessly dropped cig butts.