45ACP leading like crazy - what am I doing wrong

[Pitchnit]

Don't give up you'll get it and in the meantime Chore Boy is your friend. Check the front edge of the brass to see if its shaving lead when seating the bullet. I had a redding seating die that was removing the flare as soon as the brass engaged it. I couldn't see it with my naked eye but I sure could with a 10x eye loupe. Dove me nuts for weeks until I figured it out. I size .452 for a .451-.4515 barrel, Carnuba Red lube and crimp only enough to remove the flare .474-.4745. I crimp with a Lee FCD but I just barely bump it or it will resize the bullet to .451. I also used to size to .453 and went back to .452. I use a MP 200 gr H&G 68 clone with a 1.255 COL to just engage (pilot to) the rifling.

[kens]

I "assumed" earlier when you slugged and measured you used a micrometer, not a caliper. You are sizing to .453 then having to crimp the heck out of it to chamber. This would be a red flag for me. Flare the case just enough for the base of the boolit to easily start, and taper crimp only enough to completely remove the flare. Crimping beyond this, and you will be reducing the size of your boolits. If your .453 boolits won't chamber like this, size them to .452 and try again.

I have looked everywhere for a .453 sizer, where did you get one?

[Cane_man]

^^^ you can lap your die and open it up... no lathe needed just a dowel, sandpaper, and oil:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hlight=lap+die

[Cadillo]

A lot of good advice has been given. I'll just add that I load 200 grain swc's in my .45's and that one likes .452" and the other requires .453" to get a good seal. They both do much better since I increased my powder charge from 4.0 grains of 231 to 5.0 grains.

[truckjohn]

Just to clarify...
Leading = having to scrub with the copper chore boy pad... Giant chunks and strings of lead coming out of the barrel... Not talking about black powder crud and a little silver streak.....

Seems like the consensus is too small...

I will have to go load some up and then pull them down.... Mic them before and after to see what I am getting...

Loading wise - I have done it both in a Lee Pro 1000 progressive press and in my Rock Chucker with Redding dies... At first - I had issues with not belling enough, so I belled more... Then, I convinced myself that the seater die was crimping too soon - so backed it way off to seat only without closing the case mouth... Then - crimp separately. The crimp die I was using was a dedicated Redding taper crimp die set up to close up the case mouth.

I will dig up some empties and see about stuffing boolits into them without sizing - just to make sure the chamber is roomy enough to begin with....

Thanks

[Pitchnit]

With my redding seating die it didn't matter how much bell I put on the case. The die removed the bell before the bullet seated and was shaving lead. But I wasn't scrubbing out lead streaks either. I am by no means an expert and I wish you well. Don't give up. Just curious how many rounds are you shooting before cleaning.

[gray wolf]

I'm betting the OP is making the bullets smaller somewhere in his loading process. Two different barrels, all kinds of bullets and lubes and it still leads. The common denominator is the loading process, either excessive taper crimp or some other factor is making small bullets. A bullet needs to be pulled and miked!
DITTO

[tomme boy]

Don't crimp. Adjust the die to give you a measurement of 0.471"-0.472" at the very edge of the brass. The only thing you want to do is remove the bell. NO MORE!

[doghawg]

Lemme tell you a story about a man named Jed,,,,,,,,,,,, OK, so he's NOT named Jed but I gotta protect the innocent with a name change 'cuz he may be a member here, or will be once I convince him to join.

He started loading 45s on his Lee press with Lee dies. When I saw him putting the infamous Lee FCD I stopped him and showed him where the whole length of the case ws being sized and might have even pulled a boolit to mic'.

At any rate I let him crimp(deflare) them with my RCBS die. Don't remember the load but they were either Lyman 230 RNs or H & G 200 SWC and they shot fine with nary a hint of leading in evidence.

Recently he loaded more 45s, at home, with Lee 230 TCs. Virtually the same alloy, which shows no leading in my old 1911. Crimped in that Lee FCD again and he got horrible leading.

If you ARE using a Lee FCD that may well be your problem. One would think that with Lee being so big into casting equipment they could make a sizer that doesn't resize loaded ammo. One, apparently, would be wrong!

I just recently picked up a Lee FCD in .45 ACP and was skeptical of this post. I seated a couple of cast .452's and then pulled and mic'd them....and I'm skeptical no more. They were a little under .451" and that was just from running the loaded round through the ring with no attempt to adjust it down to a .471" crimp. Glad it was cheap.

[MtGun44]

I have railed against the Lee pistol type FCD for several years, and still many stand by them
as wonderful devices.

Thanks for reporting one more proven case (of MANY) where these infernal devices are CAUSING
the problem.

I've been told that if you knock out the sizing ring it will be a good TC die.

Bill

[Gliden07]

The load I shoot out of my Kimber is sized at .452 with the Lee Tumble Lube Boolit and 45-45-10 lube with 5 grains of 231 powder. When I first started loading these I had the taper crimp set to low and was leading pretty good (sizing down Boolit). I lightened up on the crimp and leading went away but then I started having issues with feeding, I increased the crimp a little and I was having a slight leading issue. I then increased the original 4.5 grain powder charge to 5 and the leading is the way it should be (I feel for lead rounds).

[outdoorfan]

I've modified two LFCD by simply cutting the carbide ring out with an angle grinder. No big deal, and that was lots faster for me than trying to lap it out. Once that ring is out, I find they work fine as a crimp die.

When I'm trying to find the solution for an undersized boolit (due to the reloading process), I pull a boolit after seating BUT BEFORE CRIMPING just to be sure the brass tension isn't swaging it down. Then I would check to see what the FCD carbide ring is doing. That's just how I would go about it.

[gunoil]

ww's make boolit harder, maybe boolits are to soft. Check hardness.

[Recluse]

light softball Bullseye load (I think about 3.5 grains), Unique, VVN310 and VVn320...

Taurus PT1911. First - tried out the factory barrel.. Tried out factory hard cast - leading... Hornady Swaged - leading... Slugged the barrel and sized boolits 0.001" over - so 0.453"... Leading.... Home made cast in: H&G 68, H&G 130, Lee 230 TC, Saeco 130, RCBS 130, Lee H&G 68, and even the heavy 45 ACP RF GB mold...

Changed barrels to a Kart barrel.... Leading.... But.. Now - nothing chambers right unless I crimp the hell out of it.... and it still leads like crazy.....

Where to go? Give up?

Thanks

I loaded up some 200SWC boolits that were already cast, sized and lubed that I've been shooting for years with zero problems. Loaded them with 3.5 grains of Bullseye and shot them through one of my .45s that has had no leading problems.

Experienced, unsurprisingly, two things:

1. Feed jams and difficulty chambering. That would be because the slide was not fully cycling and thus not getting the full benefit of the spring to feed the round in. I've experienced this before with a couple of my .45s, namely the Series 70 Gold Cup.

2. Leading. For a boolit and barrel combination that I've never had problems with, after just 20 rounds, the barrel was the ugliest I've seen it in over 20 years.

I cleaned it up, and then fired 20 rounds of my standard 4.6 grains of Bulleye and feeding/chambering problems went away and there was zero leading.

Same bullets, same head stamped brass, same press, everything reloaded at the same sitting--only change was in the powder load.

We're quick to blame sizing of boolit on leading, but don't be afraid to factor in powder charge considerations. Just as overcharging can cause streaking, undercharging can cause gas-cutting. Both cause ugly leading, and both are easily rectified by using proper/appropriate powder charges.

Just my two cents.

[felix]

For those who have been reading this board for some time, Recluse's post should be common sense by now. ... felix

[rexherring]

Hmm, I've not had a single problem with the LFCD in my .45 and I shoot fairly soft cast in it. I only run it up the die enough to remove the bell.

[EMC45]

Bought the Lee FCDs, used them and saw they were sizing all my ammo down and creating leading inaccurate ammo, and promptly cut the carbide rings out of each one of them. They work great now.

[Char-Gar]

I have fired a quarter million or better cast bullet loads through a couple dozen 1911s in 45 ACP over a 50 year period with no serious leading.

All bullets have been sized .452. All powder charges have been 4.5 to 4.8 grains of Bullsye with 200 to 240 grain bullets. I have used some Unique and AA5 But always go back to Bullseye.

This is just another vote for folks taking the post by Recluse to heart and stop trying to throw powder puff loads out of a pistol not designed for them. The 1911 autopistol and 45 ACP round are a great combination, but they are designed to work a certain way. Follow the design parameters and you get results, don't follow the design parameters and you get consequences.

[Larry Gibson]

Just to clarify...Seems like the consensus is too small...

Thanks

In the early 1400s the "concensus" was the earth was flat............A "concensus" does not make fact. Let me say again; don't get wrapped around the axle over exoteric stuff you would have alread corrected. The problem is simple, the solution is simple.

Again;

You've switched bullets, sizings and powders and still get leading. That leaves one or both of 2 things; the alloy or the lube.

Suggest you add 2% tin the the WW alloy let the bullets AC for 7 - 10 days before lubing, sizing or use. WW alloy can be "iffy" depending on the quality of the WWs used. Mostly that alloy is deficient in tin. Size .451 or .452 as both are standard for 45 ACP and should do fine

I'll suggest trying the LLA then or switch to BAC or another soft NRA 50/50 formula lube.

Suggest as others you up the charge of Bullseye to 4 - 5 gr (4.5 gr works) simply because every 45 ACP has always shot much better in that range than below it with many of those bullets.

Larry Gibson

[fredj338]

An H&G 68 lubed with LBT soft blue and DELIVERED to the barrel at .452 will not lead in any
.45 ACP I have ever seen, which is a bunch. I'd never say impossible, but wildly unlikely.

Somewhere you are getting the boolit too small. Too soft is not an issue with this cartridge.

Bill

I am leaning this way. ^^^^^^ IME, loading for 5 diff 45acp, from 700-900fps, no appreciable leading sizing to 0.452". I do NOT use a LFCD, I do NOT over crimp. It is possible you got bbls that are just rough as cob & they are going to lead. It could also be your alloy. You do NOT need AC ww for 750fps, a dead soft lead bullet would be better. Check the expander, pull a bullet after seating & crimping & mic it.