Happy 1894 Winchester 38-55 Story

[hunter64]

I was given a 1905 Win.94 38-55 rifle that was my grandfathers after he passed away in 1994. The rifle had been sitting for about 15 years in the back of the porch at grand fathers house and he always complained that he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it. Looking down the bore you can hardly see any rifleing at all the last 10 inches or so of the barrel. I remember trying it when I was in my teens and you might be able to hit a Gerry can at 50 yards with it with factory ammo.

It sat and sat with no use and when I enquired about it after grand dad died my uncle said I could have it but "I don't know what you are going to do with it other than hang it on the wall".

Last year I decided to give it a whirl and with the 10 rounds I had left in a box that came with it I tried it out at 100 yards and out of the 10 shots I managed to get 3 bullets on the 8.5 x 11 paper and that was it.

I slugged the bore and it came out at .381 so I bought a cheap lee mould and beagled it out to get a .382 bullet. I tried loading it in Winchester brass and there is no way in heck it would chamber. I happened to pick up 50 starline cases and tried again with the .382 bullet and this time it would chamber almost all the way and with a bit of force on the lever it would chamber.

I got in on the NOE 38-55 group buy and had buckshot make me a .381 sizer die to try and see if I could get any accuracy out of this rifle at all. After sizing the new bullet with the .381 sizer and using Starline brass the case will chamber just barely.

So I tried various powders and last weekend I hit the jack pot. 30 grn of RE 7, starline brass, win. primer and just over 1.5" for 5 shots at 100 yards.




Now I am going to load up 25 rounds and shoot 5 at a time and let the rifle cool in between and repeat at the same target to get a good representation of the load/gun combo. I can hardly believe it, the variation of the bullet impact on the target between different loads and powder was amazing. First 10 5 shot groups with IMR 3031 was right on the bullseye and when I switched to RE7 the group jumped up 5 " and barely made it on the paper. The bullet to the left was from the target on the left side at 29.5 grn of RE7.

Can't wait to try it on a nice whitetail deer this fall if I get time to get out and hunt.

[msp2640]

It's great that you got the old rifle to group, but even greater that the rifle has family history. I'm just starting down the 375 road with a new to me Marlin, but I'm so drawn to their Cowboy model in 38-55. I hate to be the one to ask for pics of the rifle, but I'd love to see it, I don't think I have a favorite firearm built before 1950 and none with the family heritage of yours - Best of luck with it - Bill in MA

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Congradulations on the salvage of a fine family shooter.
Have a couple caliber 38/55's 1894's from that time era. One is pre 1899 and another from 07. They both are fat throated like yours. I do not have my book with me but I know the one will chamber .382 and the other is probably the same. Struggled for awhile trying to come up with fat enough boolits till I lapped a Ideal 375248 to .383
Once you have a fat enough projectile it is just a matter of finding that load that settles into the vibrations and tosses them out to the same spot. 1.5 inches is going to be tough to beat.
Mike in Peru

[Ruber]

Love the story, and would love to have one.

As a fan of old winchesters, I'd also like to see some photos, no matter how rough!!

[smokeywolf]

I do love the old Winchesters. Don't have a 38-55; kinda wish I did. Would love to see pics but, if that's not doable, some features would allow for a mental picture.
Straight of pistol grip stock? Octagon or round barrel? Full or half magazine?
Although I've got a couple of rifles that are capable of groups approaching what you accomplished, my eyes can't pull that off. Nice shootin' by both you and that fine old Winchester.

smokeywolf

[smithywess]

hunter64

Your group with the .381" sized bullet wasn't too bad but if you want to chamber .382" bullets which your rifle would do well with you'll have to ream the chamber throat with a throating reamer to take just enough metal off to allow the chambering of a dummy round with a .382" bullet seated. It's not difficult or complicated. The reamers can be supplied by whomever but I used Pacific Tool and Die out of Oregon I believe it is. You just tell Dave there your chamber throat requirements to four thousandths of an inch if possible but three is O.K.too. I did this with four old Marlins which were originally made in the blackpowder era ( two .40-65's, a .44-40 and a .38-40 ) They all slugged way over what would chamber but each now will group to about an inch at 8o yards. The reamers are about U.S. $70.00 each. I.M.R. 4198 and I.M.R. 3031 work real well in the .38-55 or at least they do in mine.I haven't tried RE7 but it's about the same speed as 4198 as I understand?

[pietro]

.

Great story & good work, Bill - Now, you're going to have to change your handle to "TCBD" ( The Cast Boolit Doctor ) . .



.

[KirkD]

Nice work! It sure is satisfying to get an old time 38-55 shooting accurately. I have heard others say that the 38-55 couldn't hit barn if one was standing inside it when he took the shot. Well, I figure it is because a lot of 38-55's had oversize bores like yours. Increasing the bullet diameter solves the problem. If the case is slightly tight when chambering, I just take some 400 grit sandpaper and turn the case by hand while I hold the sandpaper tight around the neck where the bullet seats. If you can take of half a thou of thickness, that works out to a thou less in diameter and usually solves the problem.

[hunter64]

smithywess: Do you need to take the barrel off to ream the throat or can you do it with the bolt removed? I have also read on the forum about turning the brass in a lathe both outside and someone talked about inside turning also.

Here are a couple of pictures I snapped off quickly. Some of the screws are not original but I should be able to find some replacements.

[smithywess]

smithywess: Do you need to take the barrel off to ream the throat or can you do it with the bolt removed? I have also read on the forum about turning the brass in a lathe both outside and someone talked about inside turning also.

Here are a couple of pictures I snapped off quickly. Some of the screws are not original but I should be able to find some replacements.

Hunter 64,

No you don't need to take the barrel off. The throating reamers I used (supplied by Pacific Tool and Die) are turned by hand through a 'T' handle which screws onto the reamer. With the bolt out, and the stock removed to allow clearance, and with the receiver held snugly but not too tight in a padded vise, the reamer is put down the chamber until it stops. They are scalpel sharp, and when pushing into the chamber the reamer is turned clockwise. Try to maintain the same pressure throughout and you will feel the chamber throat being cut. Go easy. Try a 270 degree turn first, releasing your pressure slowly as you quit turning when you will feel it stop biting. There is a pilot ahead of the cutting flutes which helps to keep things centred. Be careful to blow every single piece of metal filing off the reamer before you start again with it. Always rotate clockwise and never turn the reamer anti clockwise. After each turn, or partial turn, try to seat your dummy round by hand. If the rim nears the seat flange or just touches it you're almost there. Then try chambering the dummy round with the bolt re-installed. A snug fit is fine. I made several dummy rounds from WW which has the thinnest metal at the neck to R-P and Dominion brass which has the thickest. I insisted that a Remington brass case with the seated bullet would chamber satisfactorily before I quit. You can try removing brass from the case neck if you wish, instead, either by hand as Kirk D has suggested or in a lathe variation as you suggest and certainly that might work in a .38-55 case but you will recall that I was trying to seat bulleted cases in both .44-40 as well as .38-40 chambers and their case necks are paper thin to begin with and I wasn't inclined to thin them any more by the methods discussed here. When you've finished with the reamers clean them up real well and spray oil them before carefully replacing them in their plastic cases. They are precision tools.You might need them again for a buddy someday.

[smokeywolf]

Thanks for the pics hunter. She's a fine old Winchester. A minty looking Winchester is great to look at, but has no stories to tell. It's always nice to see a Winchester that has obviously seen the use for which it was designed and built. It makes one's imagination see all the hunting trips that this rifle has been on. Your Winchester has put meat on the table and thanks to your efforts will continue to feed your family.

smokeywolf

[hunter64]

Thanks for the info smithwess, that makes a lot of sense on how it is done.

Smokeywolf: Dad was the 3rd of 5 children and grew up during the 30's when times were really tuff. He hardly ever talks about his early childhood and usually only with his brothers when we visit the farm. There was no such thing as hunting season back then, you saw a deer you shot it and into the back of the truck it went and shortly it was in the freezer or cold storage depending what year it was.

Dad remembers using the rifle one time when he was out early in the morning milking the cows and thru a crack in the barn door he could see something moving out on a small hill behind the sheep corral. Thinking at first it was a coyote he went out the back of the barn to the house and grabbed the rifle and went back into the barn to shoot it. When he got back he realized it was a deer just standing there and by this time his older brother had come out with him to see what was up. He slipped the barrel thru the crack of the door and nailed it above the front leg and he said it didn't even kick, just dropped like you turned the switch off. Well all the boys were out shortly after the shot was fired figuring it was a coyote and when there is one there is always others near by so they brought there rifles to help out.

Once they saw Dad and Wendle on top of the hill dragging this deer back to the barn they put there guns up and everyone had the deer up on a rope and in no time they had it butchered and in the freezer in about 2 hours, they still had the milking to do.

I guess great-grandfather bought the rifle in 1906 when grandfather was about 8 years old. I never meet great-grandfather as he passed during WW2 and grandfather used it up till about the 70's sometime when he was getting on in years and his eye sight was failing. The two older brothers moved away as did dad in the 60's when they got married which just left the two youngest brothers on the farm. The one brother had no boys and the youngest brother had only one boy. The oldest brothers had 2 and 3 boys each so for me to get the rifle it is truly amazing, everyone thought it was useless and there for not worth having. To them it is nothing more than a warn out tool, I beg to differ.

[smokeywolf]

Considering the state of our economy now, you may get the chance to reenact that Depression era story.
It's great that you are able to breath new life into an old Winchester that will now be serving a 4th generation of your family. You can be sure that every time you fire that rifle your great-grandad is looking down from above with an ear-to-ear grin.

smokeywolf

[hunter64]

Took the old girl out to the range today and shot 10 rounds with 30 Grn. RE-7 and also 31 Grn. of IMR3031 and they both print about the same at 100 yards. 10 shots gives you a great indication of how well a load is doing and they both were about 1.5"-2" for 10 shots which is great for this old rifle. I have lots of IMR3031 but I am running out of RE-7 and I have phoned around and so far no luck. I have lots of Alliant 2400 and I have been searching the web sites and most people have settled on 15-20 grn or 2400 for a 250 gn bullet. Mine is only 235gn so I should be ok working up slowly to about 19.5-20gn.

Anyone tried 2400 in there 38-55?

[KirkD]

hunter74, that is superb accuracy for an original 38-55. I would not do a thing to it for fear of changing something.