OK I'm getting closer! Lee Pro 20 lb pot & 6 cavity mold Now what?

[JIMinPHX]

OK! Will clean again. Now I also lubed the pivot and pins with bee's wax as per Lee I guess there is something better?
( Since I will be using that Lee pot and Lee 6 cavity mold I'm trying to concentrate on information for that set up)

The majority of people on this board seem to believe that Bullplate lube from Bullshop is the best lube to use. My results with that stuff have been very good. My second best sprue pivot & pin lube was a mixture of high temp grease & never seize, but that stuff needs to be cleaned off & reapplied when you are done casting. With the Bullplate, you just keep on going & add a very small dab once in a great while.

If you are using bee's wax, you will need to clean that off after it burns on & then reapply a fresh coat. It doesn't hold up as well as one might hope.

Other "old timer" lubes are pencil lead & soapstone. I've used both. It's possible to make either work, but neither lasts very long at all, at least not for me.

[JIMinPHX]

If this will be my first attempt at casting I would like to ask If I'm using the Lee pro 20 lb bottom pour pot should I fill it up for my first attempt or should I start out with less? (I already know to put the thing on a big cookie sheet in case of leaks)
So I put my hopefully clean wheel weight ingots in the pot turn it on & once it starts to melt put in my thermometer then it get to the right temp ( which should be under 700 deg correct?) then I will flux & stir (?)
Then how long before I start to cast? as soon as it is fluxed & stirred ?
Then do I continue until the pot is drained or can you leave lead in the pot to cool?

I put a big piece of cardboard down before I set up to cast. That way I can put my tools & supplies down as needed.

For a first casting session, I would fill the pot with the amount of alloy you plan to use, + about 3 pounds.

You can start to cast as soon as you have clean alloy at the right temperature. It will probably take 10 or 20 casting cycles to get the mold up to temperature if you do not preheat the mold. The "correct" pot temperature will depend on many things, including but not limited to, the mold, the alloy & your casting technique. I've cast as high as 850f with pure lead in a slug mold. I've cast as low as 625 with a hard alloy in a big fat pistol mold. You need to play around a little & see what works for your particular combination of process variables.

Frosted boolits mean don't let stuff get any hotter. Shiny boolits mean don't let stuff get any colder. 700F is probably a good place to start.

I usually drain my pot when I'm done. A lot of other people don't.

[JWFilips]

Thank You for some of your tips. I guess since in casting i'm using a 20 lb fill tank I got to make or aquire a smaller dross removing slotted spoon?
I guess I will do the same to Flux with sawdust & Beeswax in the casting phase and again if I add all'l lead to the casting pot. When I'm done drain the pot into an ingot mold.
I think I'm set Tonight: I recleaned my smoked cavities put a better lube on the sprue pivot and aligment pins ( sans Bull plate)
Got some good clean wheel weight alloy.... May add a touch more tin so the next chance I get I will write back. ...unless what I just posted is way wrong....& oh yes "Do not over think the process" just do it ! Hey I can always throw it back in the pot!I'm going to try this, this weekend if the temps aren't too bad. I see I'm at 7 degrees right now that's pretty warm... the darn Arctic has broken open this week in NEPA

[JIMinPHX]

When working out of a small pot, like a 20 pounder, I just use a regular tablespoon to pull the dross off the top. Of course that spoon then becomes a permanent casting tool & never gets used around food again.

...Just to check, you do know about being careful not to let anything wet or even moist get into your pot of melted lead...right? If you are not familiar with that problem, do a search for "the tinsel fairy" & read up on casting safety a little bit.

[JWFilips]

Feel pretty good on the safety end of it & heed all warnings. I'll have no water anywhere I'm casting.

After fluxing & cleaning the dross do I need to keep a layer of sawdust on the top (of a bottom pour pot) to prevent oxidation or do I pour with the top of the pot all cleaned off?

[cbrick]

If your bottom pouring leave a layer of charred sawdust on top. Still not ure why you feel you need to add wax to sawdust fluxing but if it makes you feel good no harm no foul.

Rick

[JIMinPHX]

With a bottom pour pot, you can cover the top of the melt, because you don't need access to the top of the melt. If you are dipping a ladle, then you can't cover the top of the melt.

Leaving a layer of burnt up sawdust on top of the melt will not hurt anything & it can prevent oxidation of the melt. It's a good thing to do, but it is not totally necessary.

[Pitchnit]

I just started casting this year so this is from a newbie on the issues I had. Others here please comment if what I am writing is bad advice. Learn to read the sprue puddle. Once the sprue solidifies I count to around 6 then cut the sprue. Look at the top of the mold, If the lead streaks across the top, you cut too soon. If the base of the bullet looks like a hole was pulled out of it you cut too soon. Count in your head while you do this to develop the timing. Also count the time between cutting the sprue and opening the mold. Again, I count to 6 unless the sprue tells me the mold is getting hot then its 10. If you do not preheat your mold and you wait to long it can be difficult to cut the sprue. If you try to force the sprue open you will break the handle and you will be like me using a small wrench on the stub of the sprue cutter. Make sure you get the mold closed completely If you don't lead will build up on the inside edges of the mold and you will start getting flashing. I keep a damp (not wet) rag close to wipe lead off the top of the mold and the mold side of the sprue cutter if I start smearing lead. I also keep a damp (not wet) rag away from the pot if the mold is getting to hot and set the mold on it to cool it. In the end just jump in and you will figure it out, whatever drops that you don't like you can re-melt. Its not hard but heed the safety warnings you have read. I am covered with 1 layers of cotton with long sleeves and an apron, long welding gloves, safety glasses and a full face shield. Its a hoot! Good luck. Regards-Pitchnit

[popper]

If you use sawdust with the bottom pour pot, don't drop the sprue or bad casts back in without stirring and scraping to get the junk off the bottom. It will collect on the bottom and the spout pole and you get a plugged spout or bad dripping. I don't use tin but still skim the sawdust dross off so I can dump sprue cuts and culls back in and continue casting. I keep my melt below 720F. It is difficult to get the 6x Lee to preheat on the top of the pot(it tips) or dunk in the pot so I got a hot plate to preheat.

[JWFilips]

Well I did my first casting today & I have to admit it was much more controlled then my first attempt smelting.
I started off small with a 10 lb melt of wheel weights and a little extra tin. Everything went smoothly and I cast about 200 bad ones at first. Mould ran very nice no sticking or any sprue problems It was actually easy but I just couldn't get the mould to fill out & I still must have had some grease in the cavities based on the wrinkles. Shut everything down & when cool Scrubbed my mould again meticulously. Started all over. Again everything was going smooth except fill out wasn't right and I still had bad wrinkles .......Now with about 400+ Bad bullets under my belt I was really frustrated and I did the "unthinkable" I smoked the darn mould ( what else could I do I was out of ideas) Now guys, you are probably going to hate me but the very next pour into the mould after reheating it, dropped properly filled and non wrinkled boolits...I kid you not.
It was like the "Lead gods" through a switch. After that I cast 200 boolits that I felt were good. I stopped when Like "popper" said above ...I had remelted the sprues & culls about 3 times and as my pot started getting low I started seeing inclusions in the boolits and yes my spout started to leak!
I drained my pot into some tins and let all cool down & proudly took 200 Good bullets upstairs where my wife started inspecting them ( before I had a chance) She started pulling the ones with the inclusions quickly. Then I started on the mis-formed bases and wrinkles Then I took the good pile and weighed each one & kept the ones that were within 3/4 grain spread. I ended up with 157 good boolits ( of course I still have the culls , sprues and muffins left of the 10 lb batch which maybe I will try again tomorrow)
The only problem I can see with about half is that I have some frosting on one half side of the lube bands ( & lube bands only) which I thought strange but I do recall reading about side splash and super heating maybe that is it..From what I see it doesn't look bad just not perfect. I really want to thank all of you that helped me out....this is really a great place!
Also thanks to "randyrat" who managed to get my order of mould lube to me so quickly I was able to use it today. Bull plate is nowhere to be found but Randy's stuff worked excellent. I had no problem with the operation of the 6 cavity Lee mould or the 4 Pro 20 lb pot

[Springfield]

Sounds like it went pretty well. As to not using Bullplate(454PB), I think it is one of those things that you don't know what you are missing until you use it. I don't remember reading of ANYBODY using it and saying it didn't work well. I have a couple 44-40 LEE 6 cavs that have 60,000 bullets through them, each. I don't believe they wold have survived that long without the Bullplate. I know for sure they wouldn't have been as pleasant to use, and I tried most everything before I found the Bullplate. I'll send you a sample bottle on my dime if you want to try some, and then you do a review here on the site. I bought 14 bottles of it just to make sure I never ran out, I liked it so well.

[JIMinPHX]

If smoking the mold is working for you, then stick with it. I consider it a band-aid that covers for a deeper problem, but until you figure out what the deeper problem is, use that band-aid as much as you need to. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

A little frosting on the boolits is not a bad thing at all.

[wool1]

I agree with not smoking the mold. I was taught by a BPCR shooter who absolutely preached....never get any contaminants in the mold cavity. Don't know if it is right or wrong, but it has served me well. I also use brake cleaner to clean the mold. (carburetor cleaner has a lubricant) One aspect that helped me, as someone stated above, get a rhythm. The mold will "tell" you when you have the timing right. When I started casting, I had a timer set on the bench and each mold has a different time needed to throw a good bullet. But once you get a feel for the time, it will come as second nature.

[JWFilips]

Well, Like I said I value all you opinions and help. I started out the day with a brake cleaner scrubbed mould and out side of the fact that I got wrinkles and bad fill out for the first 200 boolits the mould dropped the boolits out fine with no sticking and I didn't need to whack it with a stick....this isn't too bad if I could get the mould to work I quit for awhile to check my boolits ( all bad) & when things cooled down, scrubbed the mould again (Brake cleaner & new clean toothbrush) Then got everything hot and started again with the same results..... boolits dropping out easy but but wrinkles and bad fill out again for about 200 more boolits. I quickly opened up the mold & smoked it with a butane lighter brought it up to temp again than bang pretty boolits were falling out about 200 more before I quit.

So if it is an indicator of a problem ( & I have read much on Lee mould problems) what would the guess be? What would the smoking do to instantly fix the problem as was my case? I would rather cast without this extra step. which leementing procedure would fix this?

When I bought the mould I figured I would have to leement it from the start but figured I would try it first But if smoking it makes it drop excellent bullets I'm not sure I'm going to worry about that yet.
If I get a chance today after all my household chores I may give it another try with my left over sprews & culls to see if my luck holds out

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[Shiloh]

Fire it up and start casting and learning.
Your already asking questions. Now, put it all together, get good boolits, load, shoot, repeat.

Shiloh

[454PB]

There are two things that cause wrinkled boolits.......a contaminated mould or one that is too cold. Since you have thoroughly cleaned the mould, all that it needs is more heat.

[Ted]

Looks like you got started OK. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but. Gloves, leather gloves. Pants, shoes and if you got it an apron. No shorts (ask me how I know), I also wear a full face mask, someday that evil little bitch, the tinsel fairy, will come and pay you a visit and you will be glad you had one on. Also you may have one but if you don't then you want a casting thermometer. You will not realize how much you wanted it until you have one.

[JIMinPHX]

I'm going to guess that the soot is acting as an insulator & covering for a cold mold.

One other little word of caution here. Brake cleaner & heat don't mix. The decomposition byproducts of brake cleaner are horribly toxic, even in very small concentrations. Be sure to get all the brake cleaner out before you heat the mold back up & do not spray brake cleaner on a hot mold. Look up phosgene gas for more details.

[JWFilips]

No all clean is done on a cold mold & it not used until dry.

I did another casting session yesterday ( That was my 3rd time) & yes I'm getting the hang of it. Things are going much smoother & easy. I ran my pot hotter 700-750 deg and poured faster and continuously down the six cavities in a line
which help the fill out and kept the mold running hot. I had a number of frosties but I'm tumble-lubing them. My success rate was higher with 200 good & about 30 bad. It was much more enjoyable this time.

Last week on my first tries I had my pot full This week I wanted to finish my alloy I made up last week I had about 6 lbs left.
I started with a clean pot and melted down the bullets, sprews, & ingots I made from draining the pot last week So that gave me about 1/3 pot Even with proper fluxing & stiring and rubbing the sides & bottom of the pot I started getting inclusions in the bullets near the end, that's when it got into taking long to finish...... I had a lot of remelting going on in the last half hour or so, since I was getting more bullets with junk in them Then I packed it in and drained the pot & figured I will just add the old ingots to my next batch. Is this normal to get inclusions near the end of the pot Or have I missed a trick?

Also I had about 6 pours Near the end when I cut the sprews instead of a clean smooth cut I got more of a crystalline crack
at the sprew cut. What was happening there?

[runfiverun]

you were just pulling a little lead from the base it is no big deal.
once you see that little bit of frosting on the drive bands i usually turn down my alloy temp a bit.
and run just as fast.
you'll get to a point where the castings turn shiney again and i try to keep everything there.
it's the mold getting hotter where the breakthrough comes in.
the boolits are rather fragile in this state.

your inclusions are most likely oxides and some of the carbon from the sawdust.
now is a good time to look up fluxing.
you have the carbourization part down,you need to get it back out of the alloy now.