45 ACP load leading

[prs]

Gear's post #13 describes my Ruger SR1911 to a "T". Lyman's copy of the 200gr SWC leads like crazy with TL, Recluse, Emmert's, or NRA. That front shoulder of the boolit gets rolled back and then ridden over as it goes down the bore. The Lyman boolit that sort of mimics the hardball design does not lead regardless the lube type. TL452-230-SW Lee leads a little regardless the lube, Lee 452-230-TC leads only slightly regardless the lube type used. After extended firing the sharp shoulder where the chamber ends gets a little ramp of lead built up on it that I have to remove with a dental pick. The chamber is "generous" of diameter and accepts form fired cases nicely, so I set the size die to only size that area of the case that is occupied by the boolit and thus the fit of the ammo is excellent, but that sharp edge still peels away some lead of most boolits. I would be happy with casting only the Lyman round nose 220 grain booit, except even with a 4 cavity mould it is way slow to use compared to an aluminum 6 banger.

Gear, what is the model number of the reamer you used. Was it a Manson or other?

prs

[MtGun44]

Boy, that does sound like it needs a throating. Sorry to hear that. The gun seems to be a
really nicely turned out version of the 1911, too bad they left out a throat in the barrel.

Bill

[Pitchnit]

I shot 50 of the commercial cast .452 over 4.6 Bullseye tapered crimped at .470 tonite. It only had a bit of lead starting at the throat and extending into the barrel approx 1/4 inch. Cleaned out easily with chore boy and hopes. I am interested in learning more about the correct barrel configuration and reaming the throat. I hear the process is easily performed by most anyone. Kinda like just insert and turn. I understand dimensioning and metal working to a degree, so I am confident I could accomplish the task, but am kinda anal about the details and don't want to try it without a good understanding. If anyone could offer advice I would be appreciative. Regards-Pitchnit

[geargnasher]

513-053-441WB

Use a professional-grade cutting oil (regular oil won't do) and don't ever turn the reamer backwards. Do a little at a time until the .452" boolits don't shave (make dummies with boolits seated too long to chamber and tap them with a plastic/rawhide mallet to check throat shaving). You basically will end up with a throat entrance somwhere around .455" or a hair larger before it won't shave a .452" boolit with a fully-resized case.

***One more tip, don't over-crimp, leave enough of the bellmouth so that the case will self-pilot and not shave one side of the front band when chambering. I usually crimp most of my .45 ACP to .474" or .4745".

Gear

[runfiverun]

the 452 ish and commercial lube should tell you a lot.
make yours bout the same and try them with some of the lubes previously mentioned. [try a little softer alloy too]
then the reamer if that don't do it.

[Pitchnit]

Before my sizer was .453, it was .452. I polished it open to .453 and thought I did a nice job too. At that time I wasn't getting much leading mainly fouling in the 1st inch or so but that was at 4.0 BE and the 22 BHN lead. So back to .452 I will go and try again with softer PB.

[RobS]

Boy, that does sound like it needs a throating. Sorry to hear that. The gun seems to be a
really nicely turned out version of the 1911, too bad they left out a throat in the barrel.

Bill

My XD was a PITA until I worked on the short throat. Once I made a bit longer and more tapered throat everything for cast boolit shooting in that firearm went much smoother.

[RobS]

Before my sizer was .453, it was .452. I polished it open to .453 and thought I did a nice job too. At that time I wasn't getting much leading mainly fouling in the 1st inch or so but that was at 4.0 BE and the 22 BHN lead. So back to .452 I will go and try again with softer PB.

the .001 larger diameter means .001 more lead to be scrapped off if it is your throat that's giving you issues.

[Pitchnit]

the .001 larger diameter means .001 more lead to be scrapped off if it is your throat that's giving you issues.

Yeah, I'm starting to get it and wondering if I get a .451 should try to polish it open to say .4517-.4518. Or maybe just rent a throat reamer and be done with it. Going to shoot 75-80 at a local club USPSA meet tonite, I'll take another look after that. Regards-Pitchnit

[waksupi]

I would bet softer boolits will cure the problem.

[prs]

Thank you kindly, Gear!

I enjoyed 100 rounds on a cowboy action set up today with that Ruger. The ammo were near max charges of Unique under Lee TL452-230-1R with plain well cured Lee tumble lube. First patch with Ballistol was typical black Unique residue and a little grey lead stain. Second patch also some grey on side one, but almost clean on second side. None of the typical particles or strips of lead that I get with boolits that have a distinct forward shoulder and no loss of accuracy from such leading. Still, I would like the option to shoot the shouldered types of boolits too.

prs

[dragonrider]

I agree with MT44 ditch the TL design. Get a plain base design, NOT Bevel Base. Pan lube and use your current sizer.

[bruce381]

***One more tip, don't over-crimp, leave enough of the bellmouth so that the case will self-pilot and not shave one side of the front band when chambering. I usually crimp most of my .45 ACP to .474" or .4745".

Gear***

Thats what i have seen on my 1911 any leading is ON the bottom of the barrel so i'm now going from .471 to .473/.474

[Larry Gibson]

Pitchnit

"I shot 50 of the commercial cast .452 over 4.6 Bullseye tapered crimped at .470 tonite. It only had a bit of lead starting at the throat and extending into the barrel approx 1/4 inch. "

That alone is telling us you have a lube problem with your own bullets. Your home made lube concoction is not working. All the rest is over thinking the problem. I have shot thousands of hard cast (18 -22 BHN) bullets of .451 & .52 that were lubed or relubed with LLA. Try straight LLA as per the instructions or pan or hand lube some of your bullets with with a NRA 50/50 lube or BAC and try them.

Larry Gibson

[Willbird]

My XD was a PITA until I worked on the short throat. Once I made a bit longer and more tapered throat everything for cast boolit shooting in that firearm went much smoother.

I have not shot a lot of lead in mine yet, but it has been showing a tendency to lead, I wondered how hard that melonite process made the barrel. Sounds like you could cut it without ruining the reamer ?

Bill

[Pitchnit]

Larry et al,

The .452 commercial is from Penn Bullets so it has what ever lube they came with. Do you think a coat of Recluse would help? I am out of alox at the moment. I'm kinda buying into the throating thing. Regards-Pitchnit

[40Super]

On Penn bullets it should be Carnuba Red, the commercial grade. It's a little hard but still CR. I've used Penn in the past with no lube issues.
My XDM is tight chambered a has/had a sharp leading edge into the rifling that tends to lead the first 1/4". Through use it is getting less sharp. I also polished the bore with a cotton mop and metal polish. That helped, the rest of the bore is a mirror, even after 200 rounds.

[Fluxed]

I have not shot a lot of lead in mine yet, but it has been showing a tendency to lead, I wondered how hard that melonite process made the barrel. Sounds like you could cut it without ruining the reamer ?

Bill

No, you'll kill the reamer.

[Boolseye]

I just have to weigh in briefly, since I have the mil-spec version of the same gun.
I have never had a trace of leading for any reason, and I shoot that same boolit all the time.
I pan lube them, but I have no doubt that 45-45-10 would be fine too.
It really sounds like something is up with the gun–judging from your first post, you're doing everything right, load wise.
You could try filling that lube groove up with some traditional lube and see if it makes a dif.
I size to .452 always. Your alloy should be fine, could go softer with no problems. This is not generally a fussy load or caliber (in my experience), which is why it seems odd. Also this is my 500th post

[Larry Gibson]

Larry et al,

The .452 commercial is from Penn Bullets so it has what ever lube they came with. Do you think a coat of Recluse would help? I am out of alox at the moment. I'm kinda buying into the throating thing. Regards-Pitchnit

If your .45 minimally leads with the lube used on those commercail cast then your "Recluse" is not doing the job as it leads more. If it was the "throating thing" your .45 would lead horrible with the commercial cast. As I said before, don't over think the problem, get some LLA and use it per the instructions. If it works good. If not then go to a better lube such as BAC or a NRA 50/50 lube. You can pan lube or hand lube enough to see if that lube works. It is difficult to sometimes admit we may have messed up a batch but the "Recluse" you've made isn't working and is giving classic signs of lube failure. You already tried another lube with the commercial cast and it works better. Switch to a known product and see if it works....that is the easiest ans simplest course.

Larry Gibson