house gun

[44magLeo]

Most gun fights last less than 2.5 shots and less than 10 feet. Most any firearm holds more rounds.
2 #4 buck backed up by slugs in the several shotguns around the house. 125 gr hollow points in the 357.
11 rounds of Winchester 44 Special 200 gr Silvertips in the Marlin lever gun with a laser sight. It's the first choise. Hangs on the rack on the bedrails. Put the dot on what you want dead and pull the trigger, repeat as nessesary.
Which ever is close to hand.
No close neighbors or kids to worry about.
What ever you use a plan is most important and practice it, as well as with the guns used.
I hunt with the 870's and the Marlin. The 357 see's a lot of shooting too.
I don't think a bad guy is gonna look to close at the plaques and trophies on the wall. But they are there.
Leo

[Artful]

no question a cheap very affordable 12 ga single shot. Someone breaks into my house I will be looking at them in the morning. and all you need is the cheap bird shot loads too inside house range will be just as good as a slug no man or beast will live through it.

Really? -

A friend of AR15.com sends this (to The Box O' Truth):
"I saw a gunshot victim, about 5' 10" and 200 lbs, taken to the operating room with a shotgun wound to the chest. He was shot at a range of six feet at a distance of just over the pectoralis muscle. He was sitting on his front porch and walked to the ambulance. We explored the chest after x-rays were taken. The ER doc had said 'buckshot' wound, but this was obviously not accurate.

It was # 6 shot. There was a crater in the skin over an inch in diameter. When the shot hit the level of the ribs, it spread out about five inches. There was ONE pellet that had passed between the ribs and entered the pericardium, but not damaged the heart at all. As you say, 'use birdshot for little birds."

Read more: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...#ixzz1fm8LydyX

and

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm

Birdshot as a Defense Load
I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?

We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.

A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.

Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job.

and

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-315025.html

Birdshot for defense? This is from an LEO, and one of our instructors, in WY:

"One occasionally hears the suggestion that birdshot, from a shotgun, is an effective home-defense load. The argument is that is won't penetrate excessively, that it is 'effective' at close range, ad nauseam.

I'm currently involved in a murder investigation that has convinced me, beyond all doubt, that the use of birdshot as a defense load is a poor idea indeed!

Our perpetrator, in a high state of intoxication, decided to settle an old score with the victim. After informing the victim of his intentions, he armed himself with an old, Winchester M97 and charged the tube with WW, full-power, 9-pellet, 00 buckshot. Meanwhile, the victim locked himself in his auto-repair shop, and, anticipating the confrontation, also armed himselfwith, of all things, another Winchester M97, but he charged his tube with low-brass, #6 birdshot. The evidence suggests that the victim didn't know much about guns in general, shotguns in particular, and virtually nothing about shotgun ammunition. He obviously thought 'ammunition is ammunition.'

The lethal confrontation took place in the repair shop, with the two combatants separated by less than two meters.

The perpetrator opened festivities by using his shotgun to blow the lock off a locked door. It took two rounds of buckshot. The lock was demolished, and the door blown open.

There was a refrigerator just inside the door, and the victim was a few feet away, on the other side. As the perpetrator advanced, the victim fired one round at him. His aim was poor, and most of the lead shot hit (and failedto penetrate) the refrigerator door. A few struck the perpetrator in the face, destroying his right eye.

The startled perpetrator pulled his head back but immediately rolled back out from behind the refrigerator and fired a single shot. All nine pellets of 00 buckshot struck the victim in the center of his torso. The victim probably suffered a fatal injury, falling where he was hit. The perpetrator then walked over to the victim, who was laying on his back, and fired a second shot into his face from only a few inches. The victim's head was blown to pieces. When we found the body, he was, long since, DRT!

Our perpetrator then walked out the shop, got in his truck, and drove nearly one hundred miles to the small, ranching community where he lived. Only when his eye injury was pointed out to him, as well as the fact that his shirt and trousers were soaked in blood (mostly his own), did he grudgingly concede that he might need medical attention. Hours later, we arrested him at the hospital where he sought aid. He is now on trial for murder and will most likely spend the rest of his life, with only one eye, in prison.

Just another local idiot who had too much liquid courage!"

Please read http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/...n/herdson.html and
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-130218.html.

Use whatever you prefer to load your defensive shotgun, for whatever reasons, based on the advice of whatever expert you choose to listen to and accept advice from.

I am no expert, by the way.

Please note that with ANY firearm, you and your projectile(s) must accomplish two tasks- 1) placement, and 2) penetration.
You as the shooter must strike vital areas with your shot(s). The projectiles you fire must penetrate sufficiently to reach the vitals.

Choose wisely- both your shotgun ammo and your experts

[migtek02]

If I kept guns at home..... I would have a shotgun loaded with 00 buck, along with a sks fully loaded and an assortment of handguns around the house so I am never more than 20 ft from a firearm.

[fatboy]

got a Judge with buck shot and bird shot mix, and a mossberg with an 18 AND 1/2" barrel loaded with 3 buck. that one works for geese or bad guys!!!

[Jim]

Benelli Super Nova in 12X3.5" magnum, 20" barrel, chamber empty, tube loaded with three rounds of 3.5" 000B.

[Shiloh]

lots to think about my first defense plan is my dogs one liks to sleep by the front door
and one in our room i like to think they will wake me up in time to arm myself or my wife

Mine too.

Had an incident last spring when the dogs went nuts about 3:00 AM one weekend morning. I saw nothing when I checked around the house in the morning. Something alerted them though.

Shiloh

[cloakndagger]

My dos centavos, in the form of a story.
A local acquaintence was victim of a home invasion, which happened while he was in the "oval office" (or the privvy if you please). He had a shotgun by his bed, and hunting rifles in his gun cabinet in his den. He had access to niether. The thugs didnt get to carry out their ill intentions thanks to alert neighbors, who came armed. Thugs fled, but lost their ride.

Lesson here,
1) a gun you cant get to, might as well not exist (thus i keep a piece of combat tupperware in the privvy now)
2) have good, alert, and armed neighbors. Dont **** where you live, maybe itll save yours one day.
3) be ready for anything.
4) have a plan. (local police took 35 mins to respond, by which point over 10 well armed neighbors with hounds had begun a search for said thugs. see #2)

[johnnybar]

i do have a pump 887 that i won from ducks unlimited last year if i can find a short barrel for
it that would work nice i know that i wont use in the field
thank you for all the info

Buck and slugs have too much energy for urban or multi-occupant conflicts. Get some HD BB loads from your favorite shop. If you can't find them due to the panic buying, get some lead BB loads, steel T's or TT's. Iknow from experience that they will knock a BIG coyote on it's *** dead 'for hit tha' ground. And even if a few pellets sneak through two layers of drywall or a hollow core door, they will not have much energy left....buckshot will, as well as the slow moving 45acp. Now, if you want to remove body parts with each pull of the trigger, go bigger!

Personally, I live in the country and keep a 45acp 1911 x2, 44mag revolver & MAK90 hi-cap handy at all times. Also keep a 22-250, and a crazy accurate Mosin M44 in the truck when running about.

Pic for reference:

[jbc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq3RVvL9ZjU

interesting gunblast test of birdshot for defense. He must have used the uber depleted uranium tactical bird-shot because it didn't bounce off

[aa1911]

don't use birdshot for HD, just not a good idea. Worry more about shot placement than penetrating walls. Anything that will be effective on a human torso is going to go through most walls; use #4 buck if you are worried about penetration. Shotgun is actually about the best, even most handgun rounds will penetrate more than shot from a scattergun will.

[I'll Make Mine]

Maybe I'm way, way out in left field, but I like my home defense handgun rounds better than anything I could load in a shotgun, in terms of reduced overpenetration. These are handloads in .357 Magnum, loaded hot (safe in my revolver, but top end); Hornady XTP 110 grain hollow points over a big charge of H-110. These bullets are made to expand at 800 ft/s, and the Hornady manual says they should be close to 1600 from my six inch Dan Wesson. No, penetration isn't their forte, but I guarantee anyone they hit, even if wearing a vest, will feel like he's been hit with a biggish hammer, and the muzzle flash and blast will act like a SWAT team's flash-bang grenades.

And although they probably will penetrate both sides of an interior wall, they'll penetrate the second layer as fragments with no more energy than single birdshot pellets. I've only got two speed loaders, and with a teen in the house North Carolina law won't let me keep the revolver loaded -- but if twelve of these won't fix the problem, they'll at least give me time to grab the .380 (fifteen rounds immediately available of same bullets on a .380 load -- as effective as a .380 can get) or load the Mosin Nagant (in case I'm invaded by wolves, mountain lions, or bears -- or very persistent burglars with body armor).

[Dannix]

Wow, old thread.

Anything that can reliably perform against the human terminal medium (FBI standards are a good place to start) will easily penetrate internal walls. So the focus on shot placement must be the priority, and of course missed shots can only intimidate the bad guy at best.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

[QUOTE=Dannix;1972079]Wow, old thread.

i was thinking the same thing and thanks for all the reply's
i went with a 92 FS for my wife and a 12ga SXS with 20" barrels
for me

[flounderman]

I don't know what kind of birdshot shells the people were shooting that didn't do any damage, but I skinned a west virginia buck that had number 6 shot all the way thru the chest and under the skin on the far side. a 12 ga at 12 feet will tear up a man sized target with 2s or 4s. at that close a range you won't have a pattern, just a hole. Buckshot will penetrate more but at home defense distances it isn't that neccessary. the department of correction teaches everybody recognises the sound of an 870 being racked and after that nobody wants to hear the next sound. If you can get command of the situation without shooting someone, it could save you a lot of problems. At the same time, second place in a gunfight means you lost. Any gun is better than not having one when you need it, but the shotgun would be my weapon of choice for inside the home.

[farmerjim]

357 mag about 1 foot from my right hand.