Annealing .40 S&W cases with casting pot?

[SquirrelHollow]

So, I have a Lyman "Big Dipper" 10 lb pot, and I've been looking for an easier way to anneal .40 S&W cases that are destined to become .44 jackets.

Do you think filling the casting pot with cases, turning it on, and letting it at 700+ F for 30-45 minutes would be sufficient to anneal the cases?

Or, do you think it's more likely that I'll burn up the casting pot, and have strangely deformed and unevenly-annealed jackets?

[alfloyd]

I use the Lee 20 lb lead dipper pot to anneal my brass for making slugs. I fill it all the way up, put a double layer of alumium foil on top, turn it to 8 on the dial and wait for 1 hour. I have a dial temp gage into the center of the pot and it shows over 850 degrees F. The 22 cases I do it it comes out great/soft.
I have not had any problems with it.

Lafaun

[DukeInFlorida]

Watch out for using a pot with lots of lead stuck to the insides. Any lead that gets soldered to the outsides of your brass will be an issue later.

Might be worth getting a new Lee 20 pound dipper style pot, and never putting lead in it.

[alfloyd]

Duke:

That is what I did. I bought a new pot like the one in your picture, and never put lead in it.
I only use it to anneal brass in. I works great me my use. I put 2 layers of heavy weight tinfoil over the top and put a dial temp gage in the center top of the pot.

Lafaun

[SquirrelHollow]

Thanks guys.
I was debating on whether or not it was a "crazy" idea.

I've also been considering trying to bond some cores with the Lyman pot. But, there may be some splattering of the flux and lead as the flux boils off. Perhaps I should use a dedicated rig, if I go that route.

(I currently anneal and/or bond with a pair of needle-nose pliers and a turkey fryer. It isn't exactly an ideal rig...)

[runfiverun]

i use my cast iron smelting pot.
stick my thermometer in it and heat it up.
once it hits 700 i flip all the cases in it and heat it up again to about 725.
then pull that pot off the heat and put my other one on.
i do about 300 at a time this way.
and can do about 1k in a short afternoon including a citric acid bath and tumbling.

[DukeInFlorida]

The bonding that you are doing is total waste of time, in my opinion. I have never had an issue with any of my swaged bullets. I stuff cores inside, and swage. They fly well, and always stay together.

You can do whatever you want with your bullets, but I find it a waste of my time (bonding)....

Thanks guys.
I was debating on whether or not it was a "crazy" idea.

I've also been considering trying to bond some cores with the Lyman pot. But, there may be some splattering of the flux and lead as the flux boils off. Perhaps I should use a dedicated rig, if I go that route.

(I currently anneal and/or bond with a pair of needle-nose pliers and a turkey fryer. It isn't exactly an ideal rig...)

[SquirrelHollow]

The bonding that you are doing is total waste of time, in my opinion. I have never had an issue with any of my swaged bullets. I stuff cores inside, and swage. They fly well, and always stay together.

You can do whatever you want with your bullets, but I find it a waste of my time (bonding)....

I don't bond for consistency. I bond because some of my swaged bullets are intended to be launched at the vitals of Elk. Isotope alloy (BHN ~10.5) bonded in a .40 S&W case, swaged, and sized to .4315" performs much better than anything I've tried without bonding (including annealed/unannealed jackets, plain lead cores, isotope cores, and wheel weight cores).

And... I'm not using regular swaging dies. I do my swaging in a 7x57mm sizing die. So, the nose is rather short, and allows a lot of opportunity for the jacket to tear unpredictably at what would be considered the ogive on the unbonded bullets. But... the jacket performs much more predictably, when bonded (even when fired in .44 Mag).

Early "proof of concept" examples of my bullets in .44 Mag and .444 Marlin dummy rounds:

[MIBULLETS]

Bonding is not a waste of time at all for the right application. The bonding definately helps at the higher velocitys and will give you more consistant expansion. You're on the right track here. They look awsome!

[Reload3006]

I had this discussion with Richard Corbin. I have to agree with his opinion on the matter. If you are shooting at paper or steel rams who cares if you have core-jacket separation. But if your making a hunting bullet then you certainly want a bonded core. Lots of the big names in bullet manufacturing Bond the cores for that very reason in fact we all know and love the A-frame bullets. I bond all the bullets I plan to hunt with. I swab some plumbers flux in the jacket and set the cores in and melt with a torch then I wash off the salts by putting the bonded core jackets in hot soapy water then dry well and proceed with core seating and point forming as normal. IF you do not clean off the soldering flux the salts in the flux will ruin your swaging dies they will be rusted unrecognizable in a very short time.

[DukeInFlorida]

Everything I have shot with un-bonded cores died very fast. I'm not risking my dies.

[MIBULLETS]

Everything I have shot with un-bonded cores died very fast. I'm not risking my dies.

Was this at pistol or rifle velocities?With a normal pistol velocity I can agree, but very high velocity pistol and definitely rifle it can make a big difference if you hit bone or heavy muscle. With proper care as Reload3006 said, you won't have any issues and is good insurance for a marginal hit.

[DukeInFlorida]

RE-read my previous post. It says EVERYTHING.... Rifle and Pistol.

I've fired my .224 swaged bullets, un-bonded, at lots of targets, paper (wet and dry), wood, bricks, animals, etc, etc, etc, and never had an issue with the projectile failing in any way.

One target for the .224 bullets was even a Jeep Grand Cherokee at a machine gun shoot. My swaged bullets performed beautifully, and not a single one had a core bonded. Most of them were at 720 rpm+

A very expensive factory hybrid bullet or a core bonded swaged bullet seldom makes up for a poorly placed shot. Prior to my swaging activities, I always purchased and reloaded the cheapest bullets I could buy, and never failed to harvest any animal I aimed at.

[MIBULLETS]

Hey, if it works for you then fine...I'm not going to argue about it. Each person here has goals for the bullets they make. Bonding is just one piece of the puzzle, no different than choosing a jacket or core material to reach those goals. Your goals may not be the same, no big deal.

[Lizard333]

For plinking, no bonding. This includes paper, golf balls, and whatever else I'm shooting at. Here I am only using 22LR's for jackets.

When it counts, my projectiles get bonded. I see no point in taking a risk. That furry animal at the end of my bullet will appreciate the extra step insuring that he dies quickly and humanly. Here, I'll spend the money and buy J4's or other copper jackets.

Just my two cents.

[SquirrelHollow]

RE-read my previous post. It says EVERYTHING.... Rifle and Pistol.

I've fired my .224 swaged bullets, un-bonded, at lots of targets, paper (wet and dry), wood, bricks, animals, etc, etc, etc, and never had an issue with the projectile failing in any way.

One target for the .224 bullets was even a Jeep Grand Cherokee at a machine gun shoot. My swaged bullets performed beautifully, and not a single one had a core bonded. Most of them were at 720 rpm+

A very expensive factory hybrid bullet or a core bonded swaged bullet seldom makes up for a poorly placed shot. Prior to my swaging activities, I always purchased and reloaded the cheapest bullets I could buy, and never failed to harvest any animal I aimed at.

I'm not bonding to make up for a 'poorly placed shot'. I'm bonding because I tested these bullets and verified that the unconventional design lends itself to really easy jacket separation. These bullets need to be bonded, if I want the jacket to remain with the core.

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, but we don't all have to live in your little world, by rules that apply only to one narrow set of parameters, for a few bullet designs that you swage.

There's more to this world that just the little bit that you've experienced, and those of us with different experiences have different approaches to the variables we encounter.

Don't get so testy, just because our opinions differ.

[DukeInFlorida]

I may be a salty dog, but I'm never grouchy.

I do what works for me.