.30-30 Trailboss?

[andym79]

I have had a win 94 30-30 for a bit, and finally decided to start reloading for it. Got some Lee equipment, which except the scale I am very happy with.

So I checked the recommended load for .30-30 using Trailboss 6.5 to 9 grains! Using a 165 grain cast projectile.

I loaded up 20 rounds with 7.2 grains I was anticipating ~1000 fps, got only ~850! I don't care about the speed, I wanted light plinking loads for fun, but this was terrible, i must have set a record for the most inaccurate load at the range! The group, if you could call it that was about 2 foot, and all the bullets where tumbling, a couple even hit the target side on!

I assume, this must be due to the bullet achieving insufficient velocity/pressure to stabilize? Any other suggestions?

The barrel was clean! The bullet jump was about .020" and the OAL was 2.524".

I think I am going to try 8.7 grains and if its no better use 4198 (granted for 1500fps) instead!

[stubshaft]

I am not a fan of TB at all. One of my favorite loads for the 30/30 with a 160gr boolit is 8.0gr of Red Dot. It gives me about 1250 out of a 10" Tender barrel, burns clean and is accurate.

[Pb2au]

My pet load right now is 8.5 grains of T B under lees 170 grain boolit. It is a great plinking load, pretty accurate to boot.

[saz]

In my experience TB tends to shoot the best at or near max case capacity.

[quilbilly]

I wouldn't even bother to weigh the TB. Just load to at least 90% case capacity or to a level just below the base of the boolit. You want to be able to just hear the powder shake in the loaded case so you know that the powder isn't compressed. That should put you at about 1200 FPS. One easy way is to cut off a 30-30 case at the bottom of the bottleneck and use that as a measuring cup. I use a 45-70 case to get a 95% load in my 338 WM.

[runfiverun]

that seems like an expensive way to get to 1,000 fps.

[geargnasher]

Use the TB for fertilizer and use a real "plinking" powder in your gun, like about 9-10 grains of Unique.

Gear

[rfroy]

I love TB in my 45 colt and. 357 loads but still on the fence with TB in my Marlin. 8.5g with a 170gr lead bullet gives me 1/2-3/4" groups at 50 yards...sounds good right? At 100 yards I'm not in the same zipcode or state. What I mean is I cant hit a 9" plate. Fresh cardboard back plate shows about an 11" spread. Now with factory Winchester loads I get 4" with open sites so I know my sites are not loose. I will try the same load with jacket bullets next week to see oif there is any difference.

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[1Shirt]

I have not found any degree of accuracy with T.B. beyond the 25 yd range with any of the rifle loads I have tried it on. It is ok for 25 yd offhand practice but beyond that eh!!!!!
1Shirt!

[SquirrelHollow]

Find what a 100% load would be, at the OAL you want the bullet seated to.

Reduce by 0.2-0.3 gr, and load away. If that loads is also inaccurate, reduce by 0.3 gr at a time, until you find a sweet spot (or hit 7.0 gr).

There are only two things to worry about with Trail Boss:
1. Don't stick a bullet by reducing loads too far.
2. Don't, under any circumstances, compress it. Trail Boss goes nuts, and becomes completely unpredictable, when compressed.

[brnomauser]

I got reliable 1.75" groups at 100y with 12 gr TB behind a 85gr RNGC from a lyman mold in my 243. Alloy was 50/50 lino/lead. I'm not sure on the speed, but it was definitely supersonic, about the same as a 22WMR from a 20" barrel

[Lizard333]

I have tried TB in past and hated it. I'm shooting a 311041 with 29.0 gns of H335 and getting velocities of 2030 FPS. These are not "plinking" loads, but my pre-64 Winchester's love and shoot the more accurately than what I am capable of.

Plinking loads for a rifle IMP seem to be a waste of a projectile. If you are using the rifle for hunting or target you want the same point of aim. Adjusting yours sights or scope back and forth never seemed a worth while venture.

Find a load your rifle likes and stay in the zone. Save the plinking loads for your pistols.

[Canuck Bob]

I have tried TB in past and hated it. I'm shooting a 311041 with 29.0 gns of H335 and getting velocities of 2030 FPS. These are not "plinking" loads, but my pre-64 Winchester's love and shoot the more accurately than what I am capable of.

Plinking loads for a rifle IMP seem to be a waste of a projectile. If you are using the rifle for hunting or target you want the same point of aim. Adjusting yours sights or scope back and forth never seemed a worth while venture.

Find a load your rifle likes and stay in the zone. Save the plinking loads for your pistols.

Some valid points but I like to use a mid range for the non-hunting season. My receiver sights adjust quick enough and by far most of my shooting doesn't involve hunting. By working up two loads the switching isn't too bad as twice yearly works ok. I can shoot a 444 loaded down all day, full power is different and for me a recipe for flinching. IMO nothing makes a good hunting shot like shooting the same rifle a lot. For decades my only hunter was my 444.

I also plink a lot in the field. Throwing full power lead around makes me uncomfortable. I like my hunting rifle plinking ammo in the dirt quick.

However I make sure to shoot enough full power ammo to get my internal range finder reset. I also missed my only bragging buck due to loading a prairie chicken load in my 444 by accident. now my mid-range loads are a different bullet (lead soon) and I don't mix ammo when hunting (sure wish I could carry a little 22 handgun here).

[Mykos]

I've been shooting the 113gr Lee Soupcan boolits over 10gr of TrailBoss. They've been pretty accurate for me at 50m. Definitely a different POI than with regular 170gr full power loads. But I don't mind adjusting my sights for different loads. Williams peep sights are very good for repeatability so I just keep notes in my load diary of how many clicks + or - to set it at.

[BCB]

Eight grains with the 311041 (173 grains)...Super 14"...1058 fps...

Eight grains with the Lee C309-150F (150+ grains)...Super 14"...1142 fps...

I have tried 9.0 grains with each and the accuracy was not as good...

I use Trail Boss in 9 different cartridges--all with cast boolits...

It is just a "fun" powder. Fills cases to near the base of the boolit...

I agree with accuracy being best at 75 yards or less, but the 7-30 Waters, 30-30 Winchester, and the 270 Winchester are 100 yard shooters...

Yea, one can use Unique, or Red Dot, or other fast burners, but they don't even put a dent in filling the case. If the barrel is tipped forward, all of the powder is against the boolit. Guess it doesn't matter as these fast burners have been used forever with cast, but I just like the full case...

I am on my second 5-pound keg of Trail Boss...

Guess either you like it or you don't...

Good-luck...BCB

[Johnny_Cyclone]

I dip 1.6cc of Trail Boss into a thurdy-thurdy case, and using a good solid crimp in the crimp groove (I think that helps) top it off with the NOE-314-129-FN

I then set the rear sight to max elevation, and it hits a 1 liter bottle over and over at 100 yards. Seemed to hit the same with or without the Gas Checks (it's a gas check mold) so I skip 'em when I load that combo.

That's out of a 16" barrel Winchester 94

The kids really like it... ahem...yes, so do I.

[jandbn]

Use the TB for fertilizer and use a real "plinking" powder in your gun, like about 9-10 grains of Unique.

Gear

I consider myself your #1 fan. There are few here that can communicate an idea or process as effecitively as you. And thank you for your (and many others) effort helping educate those of us that need it. But....... I am going to have to take offense to "TB for fertilizer"!

I had quit handloading and shooting back in 89 and didn't handload and shoot again till 2009. Having "forgot" how to handload properly, I figured I would play it safe and use TB. With needing to "learn" how to handload again, I though I would play it safe and use TB as I couldn't double charge. (After the first batch of handloads with TB, I was back in the swing of things and loaded with H110.)

The moral of my story is others just starting to handload might also benefit with TB loads when first learning this obsession.

p.s.(You are still my numero uno educator)

[Ben]

Tight groups were being fired with Unique with a variety of cast rifle calibers before many of us were even thought about. It is still a fine powder, ( whether it fills the case or not ).

[andym79]

A couple of questions as a newbie to reloading.

1) The MAX OAL for aq 30-30 is stated as being 2.550", I have been advised to seat the bullet so it touches the rifling, which would be an OAL of is this okay so long a it feeds from the magazine and will only be used in that rifle?

2) Hodgdon list a max load of 9 grains for a 160 grain cast bullet, I am using a 165 grain bullet. I have made up some 8 and some 9 grain loads to try out. I have again been advised that a 10.5 grain load work well for accurate shooting! Is a 10.5 grain load safe. This is what Hodgdon state on there website

"Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at
this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your
maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use!"

But that is 11 grains not 9! I am confused is it safe or not. Extrapolation of pressure leads me to believe a 10.5 grain load would be around 35,000 CUP and the 30-30 is good for ~38,000. However I know that pressure curves are not straight lines and pressure might increase exponentially at a certain point. I am confused!

Would I be better just to use unique if the 9 grains of Trailboss does not work? If so might have to try and sell the 5 lbs I have got!

[303Guy]

Well, I happen to have a rifle with a rust pit in the neck area of the throat. I can drive a 194gr boolit 2000fps with it's 14 ½" barrel with a casefull of slow powder and the cases slip out easily. With reduced loads of pistol powder, Trail Boss include but not so much, those case necks expand into that rust pit and lock the case. Primer flattening is way less than the 'hot' load. H4227 does not do it even when primer flattening matches the 'hot' load. So something is happening with fast pistol powders 5that we don't normally see and I'm guessing copper crusher measuring doesn't see it either. The two powders concerned were Trail Boss and Clays (AS30N).

By the way, you might not wan't to shoot jacketed's with Trail Boss. I won't mention what makes me say that.