Your longest ethical shot.

[Doble Troble]

Every shot I've ever taken at game I was never certain it was a good one until I found the dead animal. If hunting doesn't reinforce humility, I don't know what can. This is why it is the greatest sport.

[1Shirt]

No real good answers to the question due to variables. My longest shot on deer has been 137 ranged. Longest shot in Africa, 438yds: ranged on red heartabeast, 7x57, 139 gr. Hor, one shot kill, rested. Took shot only because PH told me where to hold, and I knew the rifle. Different story on P-dogs. Have kills well in excess of 500 yds. However, that is not hunting, that is shooting. Overall, I like the philosophy of some of the old elephant hunters, "get as close as you can, then get 5 yards closer".
1Shirt!

[Harter66]

Get out the extinguishers.

I see as we go farther west, here in the states, that the common shots get longer, I'll say its because we simply have more open bare little to no cover landscape. Armed w/that why does anybody east of the Mississippi want a a rifle bigger than a 308 or heavier than the 45-70? I mean it looks to me like you're lucky to see 100yd much less shoot that far.


Next question . Why does a deer, moose,elk,antelope, or mt lion,rate a clean,humane,ethical kill,but coyotes,Pdogs,ferral cats,even pigs don't? I mean will their sufferings from a bad hit be less than tagged trophy critters?

Long ago I was taught don't point @ it if your not going to shoot it, and don't shoot it if you're not going to kill it, don't kill it if you're not going to eat it. Followed later by deeper ethos,exemptions and qualifiers,like hides only from cats and dogs and poofed starlings and house sparrows. They were then as in my camp now to be dead as cleanly as possibly, whether it's a pack rat or a BC top 10.

Funny how many of us think letting a pig or coyote wander off and die gut shot on sight is ok ,but anything over 200yd is not ok for table game......................................

[Hang Fire]

My closest unethical shot. One morning in Alaska was lying on the bunk reading in a drafty log cabin , when heard crunch, crunch in the snow outside. Pried a piece of chinking out, peeked through and there stood a cow moose about five feet away, poked the barrel out, took the shot and filled my tag. Wasn’t a hunt, but I was after meat, nuff said.

[tommygirlMT]

Absolutely !!!!!!! --- Bill Weddle --- You tell him

Although --- cant back you up 100% on your last sentence --- there are two legged varmits that go in the same catagory as the yotes in my mind (dont have feral pigs here so cant speak on them directly but from what I hear same line as yotes) --- unfortionatly you cant just up and shoot the two legged varmits like you can with the yotes and still be on the right side of the law

[Rangefinder]

Next question . Why does a deer, moose,elk,antelope, or mt lion,rate a clean,humane,ethical kill,but coyotes,Pdogs,ferral cats,even pigs don't? I mean will their sufferings from a bad hit be less than tagged trophy critters?

No such thing as a trophy critter in my world. It's either meat or vermin if my muzzle comes up on it. Meat I want DRT because I really hate tracking and packing when it's not necessary. Vermin are just practice--and I like to make them DRT as well simply because I like to know I'm capable of it when it's meat on the line. P-dogs never know what hit them. Ferral cats I'm not overly concerned with either, except I don't pass a shot on them unless it's a safety issue. When I see them, I want them dead immediately--clean or not--because there's no telling how much damage they'll cause by passing simply for the sake of a swift, clean kill. Same with pigs. Put them down fast and hard or you'll regret it the very next time they visit. Ethics are all good and well. I don't want to make any animal suffer unnecessarily. There's also sound reason that tends to run the show where vermin are concerned.

[Harter66]

I live in farm/ranch country and hunt some of everything availible. No pigs here yet but plenty of coyotes and burrowing critters. I don't have a lot of use for lions or coyotes, having killed a handful of coyotes.

I just asked what entitles a table animal to a swifter more certain death than an "agricultural pest". By the above statements my wife would have been completely justified to have shot a couple of no driving flatlanders last fall. I bet if there were a tail bounty on your worthless varmints clean DRT kills would be essential .

I personally can't see how morally and/or ethically you can have it both ways, best effort for DRT vs so what if it takes a week to die. I do understand protecting the livelyhoods and take no issue w/it. If you found a cow w/an infection,a bad 1,laying down would you give it a swift end or leave it? I think maybe you would put it down.

[tommygirlMT]

Its not a matter of not caring at all about DRT --- more of a caring less --- I dont see this area as a black and white ethical dilema --- there is a wide spectrum from the black to the white with a tapering shade of gray inbetween

As I said --- with my 460 Steyr with my good loads I have made first shot cold barrel kills on yotes out to 800 or so --- if I was deer hunting and had that gun with me and my man to be my spotter and take the lazer range readings and the angle readings and help me judge the wind and give me info off my charts and my shot by shot records (just like a good golfer needs a good caddie a serious heavy caliber long range shooter needs a good spotter) like when we go yote hunting together I wouldnt hesitate to take that long of a shot on a deer if I had the shot and the conditions werent bad enough to futz the shot up --- now would I take a longer shot then that on a deer or still take the shot if the wind was just a little too gusty --- No I wouldnt better to wait for a better shot even if that waiting means days later or even next season --- but how about a yote that shows up at about 940 or so --- thats about an additional 3 feet of drop and up to two feet more of wind drift (for normal wind drift in our yote hunting spot with a normal wind day) compared to an 800 shot --- would I take the shot attempting to compensate for the additional drop and wind drift at the additional range --- Probably I would --- especially if I had already taken a short or two out towards the 800 mark that day so I knew how things were laying out under the present conditions --- Would I just lob rounds out there at a yote at 1200+ hoping to hit it --- No

Im willing to go further into the grey with the yotes --- but not all the way into the black --- dont like an attitude that doesnt acknowledge the tapered grey spectrum inbetween the black and the white and just thinks there is only black and white "and you cant have it both ways" in this particular moral/ethics question --- some moral/ethic questions have very little of a grey spectrum inbetween the black and the white --- others like this one have more --- and there is still grey in the spectrum on the game animals as well --- I just am willing to go a lot further into the grey with the varmits

[Harter66]

I digress. I apologize for any affront.

If one can confidently make a shot and the tools are up to the task w/w/o spotters then by all means use your tools and skills.

Let me qualify by saying it took years for me to except how many folks take only the breasts from their fowl,me,I eat a lot of wings, legs,and hearts.

Coyotes will die fine out to atleast 50yd from my duck blind,from 20 an oz of 1 or B steel makes a mell of a hess. A 357 does nicely to 125yd.

I was making the observation that many folks are willing to double or even triple their ethical/skill set range to kill some varmints/vermin,and wondered why one might have a double standard for their ethos.

To me its like driving a Chevy Volt or a Prius to work w/Green inc,then sneaking out to the storage lot for your F-450 ,toy hualer, and a blown Hemi 74' Cudda' on the weekend.

Please except this as an observation not critique.

[MBTcustom]

I won't listen to anybody who talks about hunting ethics unless they have eaten an armadillo. (tastes like pork by the way) In my neck of the woods if you kill it you freakin' eat it!
I agree with Harter66, lots of people seem to have a higher standard for deer, but throw all that out of the window when dealing with "lesser creatures." They all suffer from a bad shot, but if you shoot anything just for the heck of it, you violate hunting ethics weather you make the shot or not. In many parts of the country, deer are just as big a nuisance as groundhogs, etc.
So, if I am confident in my ability to shoot a coyote at 600 yards, I dont think I owe a deer any more or less consideration than the "varmint".

[OnHoPr]

As I have read this thread commenting about ranges, ethics, and such, I haven't read anything about BOOLITS. I talking about their style, construction, and function, regardless of cast or j's. I do believe both cast and j's are ethical killers, given their specific purpose. One of the oldest projectiles is the RB which is very deadly out to the 100yd range while a annealed sst, ballistic tip, or berger can be deadly to a 1000yds. Two examples of for instance are 30years ago I shot a deer at 347 good paces. She dropped in her tracks then got up and ran with the rest of the group. My dad and I searched for her for hours, no blood and fluffy fresh fallen oak leaves. I found her a few days later a couple of hundred yards from where I shot her. The boolit went through her ribs in the back lung, liver section. The boolit was a 150gr sierra spitzer pushed in the high 2900's fps out of a 06. To find out later in experience the boolit is stout with a low BC, which really didn't work properly at the range I hit her at. Under 200yds with that boolit, not one deer has taken a step shot in the boiler room. Last year I shot a deer at 75yds with a sabot/240 Speer gold dot and 120gr of pdex select right behind the shoulder. The deer took off running. I reloaded went down to where it was standing and there was no blood or hair on SNOW. I started tracking it and after about 40yds leaves started showing up on top of the snow. Thirty more yards I got a few tiny drops of blood and it was laying about dead about another 30 or so yards. It was right at dusk and it ran into thick brush. I'm glad there was snow because there was no sign of a hit for 40 yds, it would of been a bite to find that one without snow or even to keep looking. This forum has Boolits in its name and I see there are soft points, hollow points, hard cast, RBs, big meplats, and such. I suppose the point I trying to make is boolits come in all styles for particular purposes and that should be considered for range and ethics.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Dave Anderson had an article on long range hunting in a recent issue of Guns Magazine. His views are quite similar to my own:

http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/...S0711/?page=16

[TheGrimReaper]

Around here 100yards is a long shot. We manly hunt in the woods.

[mpmarty]

Here in Oregon it seems the larger the quarry the closer they are. Deer are seen at distances of a hundred yards or much more, Elk are found in reprod areas (second growth forest planted after clear cutting a section) at ranges from twenty to fifty yards, Bear are usually spotted even closer. In the woods I only carry my 45/70. In the mountains I'm usually packing my 7mm Mag or sometimes a 30/284 it all depends and usually in close cover I can sneak up closer. Greatest thrill was stalking up on a buck in a rainstorm with a 30:06 and finally shooting him from less than five yards.

[Rangefinder]

Harter66>> I just want to make sure there aren't any misunderstandings on our part. I know what you're saying. But... Here's the difference as I see it. Game for meat, I'm going OUT to hunt. I'll pass on an unsure shot because of ethics of the HUNT. Vermin are trouble--I jump them in the yard, the shop, under the truck, etc. I don't want them back. I prefer a DRT shot, but have no notion of letting them get away. A bad shot to keep them in range followed by a really fast follow-up to make them DRT is ethics in the book of vermin. It's not meat, it protection of the valuables. As to the 6-7-800 yard prairie dog shots... They're either a clean miss, or red mist. There is no in-between.

[Harter66]

See, swift death trumps deliberately letting it wander off w/its gangeenious stump and/or guts dragging.

[Boerrancher]

I see no issues at all with long range shots if you are capable of pulling them off. Several years ago, before Afghanistan, I shot a nice 10 pt buck at 807 yds according to the range finder. I was using my 300 win mag with 165 gr Sierra BTSP on top of 85.5 grains of AA3100. (yeah I know that is way over a max charge, but my rifle handles it and it shoots good) I had been shooting that rifle regularly form 100 to 1000 yards, it was a calm clear morning and I was sitting at the base of a lone tree so taking a shot was almost like being at the shooting bench. The bullet performed perfectly, as I found the jacket and a large chunk of the core under the hide on the opposite side. The deer only ran a small circle before it dropped.

That was then. Today I wouldn't even contemplate a shot at half that distance. Age has dimmed the eyes a bit, and injuries have weakened the body. I don't have the ability to become rock solid nor the hand-eye coordination to make a shot like that anymore and I know it. Bottom line is Know your limitations and weaknesses. This is the only way of being ethical when it comes to taking or not taking that long shot.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Gunslinger]

A friend of mine shot a wilderbeest in Africa, 280 yards away.... with iron sights!!!! Something I would never attempt personally! And then with iron sights!?! I asked him if he had lost his mind! "Not at all.... I just KNEW it could make it"!

[45-70 Chevroner]

I got out of the service in may of 1964 I had qualified Expert Marks-man with the 30 carbine and the 1903-A3 springfield maybe not such a feat as I have been shooting since I was 9 or 10. I had no hunting experience with big game, I had shot a lot of rabits and squirrels and made some really good shots out to 100 yards with a 22 rifle. I bought a tag for buck only, across the counter at one of the local gun shops in Prescott Arizona that same year, for the fall hunt. I was using a rechambered Mod. 95 Spanish Mauser in 308 Win. (I paid $35 dollars for it), little did I know of the dangers of that conversion. Now to the point of the story. I shot a nice 3 point muly the first day of a two week hunt. The buck was standing a good 300 yards across a revine 200 long steps to the bottom and 200 steps back up the other side to the dear. The rifle had a 4 power junior weaver scope 3/4" tube, I aimed a little over his shoulder and if he had not moved I would have missed him. He turned up hill at the shot and he was DRT. I just made the luckiest shot of my life, I hit him in the neck about three or four inches down from his head. That was my last shot at a deer over 200 yards, and most of them at less than a 100 yards.

[HighHook]

Lots of great stories here guys. Personally 200 yards is about max for me.