Had a thought, Blackhawk 454 casull???

[Big Ryan]

Ok, so lets assume that the 45colt cases now adays are just as tough as the 454 cases,(And they prob are). To shoot them at peak performance and match or even get close to what the 454 can do I will still need to get a custom 5 shot cylinder made, and all the internal parts to deal with the 5 shot rotation, plus the new barrel. Reeder says the factory barrels are not rated to handle anything over 45k as they are to weak at the bottom rear of the barrel... Sami specs say the 454 cartridge is max cup at 65k, but Reeder told me today that they are closer to 72k. If im going to have a custom made cylinder done up to shoot the stronger 50k colt case loads then why would'nt I just get it done in the 454, then I could shoot both the high perform 454's and 45 colts right?...PS Thanks for the link to that article BCall, it was a good read.

[BCall]

Your welcome Ryan, I also thought it was interesting when someone posted it a while back.

And you are correct about the 5 shot cylinder and barrel though. The big thing I suppose is the cost of brass. It used to be alot more expensive than Colt brass, and even now it's quite a bit higher. Rougly $35/100 for Casull compared to $21-22/100 for Colt brass, both Starline. But if a man is spending $1100-$1500 for a revolver, I suppose brass expense isn't as big of an issue.

[tek4260]

Reeder gave you a great price and you should go with it if you want a 5 shot 454 custom.

The Bisley you have, loaded right(and safely) will surprise you when compared to a 454. Not claimed velocity, but actual chronographed velocities.

The BFR is an option to be converted to Bisley if it is a D-Max. The newer JT is different than a Blackhawk. Ruger Bisley parts will bolt up to D-Max revolvers.

[Big Ryan]

Reeder gave you a great price and you should go with it if you want a 5 shot 454 custom.

The Bisley you have, loaded right(and safely) will surprise you when compared to a 454. Not claimed velocity, but actual chronographed velocities.

The BFR is an option to be converted to Bisley if it is a D-Max. The newer JT is different than a Blackhawk. Ruger Bisley parts will bolt up to D-Max revolvers.

Ya, the problem is trying to find one of the older DMax's, and when you do they usualy want $1500-$2000 because now they are considered a collectors item. If Im gonna go that route I might aswell buy a FA in 454 in be done with it. This one is not too bad http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=246483241 If I sold my Bisley and bought this dmax I'd be out about the same amount of $ at first, but then I would have to get the bisley grip conversion for it, so I would be right back up there in the $1500 category. The way it sits now with using my bisley and having Reeder do the work, I will have $1100 into the total investment.

[rbertalotto]

I have a 454 Casull Freedom Arms:



I've hunted bear and deer with this revolver and been successful a number of times.

I also have a Rossi Puma Winchester 1892 in 454 Casull:



I'm a huge fan of the 454. Back in the day I met and spent an hour talking guns with Dick Casull at a SHOT show. One of the best hours I ever spent in my life.

All my 454 brass is at least 10-15 years old. And it is MUCH thicker than my 45LC brass. Both in the bass and the web.

The Freedom Arms revolvers are more than just a cylinder with one fewer holes. The metal that is used, how the grain is structured and the absolute minimum tolerances are all taken into account to handle a 65K load.

When I first got involved with the 454 I was into the "power" thing. I loaded them to the max. Destroyed scopes, my ears and my wrists! I started loading down the SOB. Much more fun to shoot and kills 375 pound black bears just as well. Deer go down like hit by lightning.

Lately I've been taking 454 brass and cutting it down to 45LC size and loading it to 44 Magnum pressures and shooting them in my Ruger BH and Marlin 1884. Just a bit less velocity than the 454 but a lot less recoil and muzzle blast. I don't think the paper targets, beer cans filled with water or the bears and deer will notice the difference!

[Ed K]

One option is that the market is a little soft on FA 454s: you do not need to spend $2K+ to get one. Your finished Reeder gun will be in the ballpark of a nice used one. Maybe @ $2400 list price a FA may not be considered as holding its' value but at half that I do not see how you can get hurt. I will say that the Reeder price seems more than fair for the work involved but custom work is expensive by its' very nature and at the same price (range) the FA may be the better value.

[c.r.]

Who would any of you recommend to make such a custom 5 shot cylinder at a reasonable price? redneck:

David Clements does a 5-shot conversion using the factor barrel for the .45 Colt.
http://www.clementscustomguns.com/rugerrevolvers.html

scroll down about 2/3rds down the page and look for "5 shot 45 Colt conversion utilizing factory barrel:"

His price for this package is a bit less than the cost of a full blown 5-shot conversion. I suggest talking with Mr. Clements to find out the in's and out's of the conversion. I'm also sure many of the other quality SA smiths out there will perform the same conversion for a similar price.

I will also suggest that if you're going to jump into a custom, don't cut corners to save a few 100 bucks. spend the extra money to get exactly what you want. you're going to have to wait a while for the gun to be built (can be up to a year and half for a custom from some of one man shops, i've even heard of over 2+yrs in some case) and i doubt you'll ever second guess spending the money, but you may regret not getting exactly what you want. When you choose a quality Smith, you'll never regret spending the money.

there's much more to building a quality 5-shot revovler than just fitting a 5-shot cylinder.

jmho,
c.r.

[Big Ryan]

Ya, but all that is doing is making your 45 colt 6 shot into the stronger 45colt 5 shot cylinder. Its utilizing the same barrel because its the same shell. That conversion is not making it a 454 or any other caliber. And for $1150 using your gun, OUCH!!. Heck for basicly the same procedure Reeder is charging $600 for, clements is charging $1995, thats more then a few hundred dollars. Im sure his work is worth it in his eyes, and a few others, but I would not consider those kinda of prices to be reasonable. I think for what Im after, Reeders work will be more then sufficent, and his prices are more then reasonable, they are realistic. Dont get me wrong C.R., I truly appreciate your suggestions & input, and I will def give him a call to see how he justify's his cost. Clements just seems to be a bit too proud of his work for my needs is all.

[918v]

If you convert a BH to 454, the gun won't last. It may hold up for a couple hundred shots, but endshake will soon appear, the frame will stretch, and the forcing cone will erode. FA uses better steel than Ruger. Furthermore, field grade FAs can be found for around $1000 used... a much better deal.

[Groo]

Groo here
I have an FA 454 and a custom 5 shot Bisley 475 and would go with a BFR..
The first time.. Not a racecar like the FA and not the cost of a custom...

[Whitworth]

Groo here
I have an FA 454 and a custom 5 shot Bisley 475 and would go with a BFR..
The first time.. Not a racecar like the FA and not the cost of a custom...

Great advice!

[subsonic]

I'm wondering how long it will be before someone starts making Bisley frame castings that fit on BFRs.

[Whitworth]

Not likely, unfortunately. It's a lot of work. Easy on the D-Max framed BFRs as it is a bolt on, but the newer ones require a lot of massaging.

[softpoint]

My suggestion: Skip the Ruger, and find a clean used FA. When Ruger and Taurus started producing 454's, factory loads were reduced considerably from what the original FA factory loads were. I've had both a Ruger Alaskan and a Ruger Super Redhawk in .454. Loads that were not even max in my FA would not extract in the Rugers I don't load my 454 to it's max most of the time anyway, but it also happens to be the second most accurate revolver I have ever owned. The most accurate revolver I have is another FA in .44 magnum. Scoped, the .44 has shot a few 3 shot clusters around and an inch at 100 meters, the 454 has shot a couple of 1.5 inchers at the same distance. I am sure they won't do that every time, nor can I hold that well all the time, but that is far better than my Rugers have done. And I have a lot more Ruger revolvers than FA guns.
While I am sure the conversion would be accurate and doable with a five shot cylinder, you can probably find a clean, used FA for less than 1500. I have no experience with the BFR revolvers, but they do get good reviews from folks here. JMHO

[subsonic]

Not likely, unfortunately. It's a lot of work. Easy on the D-Max framed BFRs as it is a bolt on, but the newer ones require a lot of massaging.

I mean, what would it take to make bisley frame castings meant to fit the bfr, not modified ruger frames. Or just cnc them from scratch....

[frankenfab]

Plus I really like the Bisley grip angle alot more then other pistols that shoot the 454, like the redhawk, the BFR, or taurus. The BFR feels too much like a super BH to me. The grip angle stinks IMO, and it ends up biting my knuckle on the trigger guard when shooting magnum cartridges. If you ever compared the grip of a Bisley frame to that of a non-bisley BH you would see where Im comming from. After readin Ben's last post, Im wondering now if there is any difference in the steel quality between the 44mag bisley & the 45 colt bisley? I own both, and would be using the 45 colt frame for the conversion because of the barrel diameter. Does'nt Gary Reeder use Bisley frames for his 454 conversions? Sure looks like it to me? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=245946641

I have a .500 Linebaugh built on a SBH, and had this exact problem. I learned that if I squeeze the grip much harder with my lower fingers, keep my elbow locked, and let my whole arm move sideways under recoil, my knucles never get rapped.

[Frank]

softpoint:

Scoped, the .44 has shot a few 3 shot clusters around and an inch at 100 meters, the 454 has shot a couple of 1.5 inchers at the same distance. I am sure they won't do that every time, nor can I hold that well all the time, but that is far better than my Rugers have done. I have no experience with the BFR revolvers, but they do get good reviews from folks here. JMHO

Yup, BFR's are just

BFR 45/70 100 yards

[tek4260]

Big Ryan, also notice that those in the know here(not me, the old hands at customs) always seem to be shooting 475's and 500's and generally share a distaste for the 454. You might consider asking why before you jump on a 454 over something a bit bigger.

[Racer X]

Hamilton Bowen stated in his book "The Custom Revolver" that some smiths do not like building 454s on the Blackhawk platform due to the insane chamber pressures. In his book he states (I paraphrase) that the chamber pressure of a 454 running at 65K PSI is probably exponentially harder on the gun than a hot-loaded 5-shot 45 Colt running at 55K PSI.

The Freedom Arms guns are designed and built to handle 454 pressures...Blackhawks are not. Furthermore, there are not many of us who could stand shooting enough of the 65K PSI 454 loads to become proficient with the gun.

I agree with the above posters that if you are set on getting a 454, get a Freedom Arms. They are stronger guns than the BFRs or any Blackhawk conversion in 454. The 454 chambering is also the most widely available Freedom Arms gun on the used market, mainly because people buy them and realize it is too much gun for them.

[frankenfab]

I still have my FA .454, but if I load it up to its full potential, (why own a Lamborghini and putts around in it?) it's not that much fun to shoot. The recoil is very nasty and snappy to me. I haven't had any trouble with accuracy, nor can I detect any wear on the gun, and it is an older .454 (says "Freedom Arms Casull" on the side).