What bullet

[mattbowen]

Hello To all;

I am shooting a 405 HBFP boolit and am thing about getting a heaver boolit to hunt with and was thinking about the 535gr Postell, what do y'all think.

Matt

[Bullshop]

Personally I would use a flat nose for hunting.

[Larry Gibson]

Assuming what rifle in 45-70?

Larry Gibson

[mattbowen]

Bullshop;

What mold would you recommend?

Larry;

I am shooting a sharps 45/70.

Thanks for the reply gentlemen.

Matt

[waksupi]

Personally I would use a flat nose for hunting.

Yeah, but what do we know?
I shot a deer with a Postell, too pointy. Had to track the deer over 200 yards. Go flat.

[Bullshop]

I can not recommend a boolit design unless I know more about things like, what you will hunt, will you use black or smokless powder, and maybe what alloy and possibly a few other things. There are many, very many good designs for hunting and in my opinion all are flat or hollow point. Our inventory listed at our site likely includes a dozen or so flat nose or hollow point designs. The one exception to using a flat nose or HP may be if you are using pure unalloyed lead. All this is of course only one mans opinion and may or may not be in the main stream. I dunno I just dont think the postell is a good hunting design and I personally wouldn't use it unless like I said it was cast of pure lead.
I do recall on one occasion a man shooting a bison on our neighbors farm. I was there when he was sighting in his Sharps. He was shooting BP and using ww alloy for his boolits which were the Lyman 457132 Postell. I told him that was a poor boolit choice for hunting with ww alloy.
He shot his bison right below the temple broad side in the head just in front of and below the ear hole. The cow staggered a bit and then went and mingled with the herd.
The next day she was found feeding as normal with the herd ans showed a small blood spot on each side of her head. The boolit had passed through missing anything important and seemed to leave the cow no worse for the wear. They finished her with a 30/06 150gb ballistic tip in the neck, very effective! Anyway that is but one example of why I said what I did about the 457132 and hunting.
Had he been using a flat nose or hollow point would the results have been different? I cant say with any certainty but I do feel that the chances would certainly have been better.
The result

[Larry Gibson]

Bullshop's questions are all valid and knowing the answers would certainly help.

Generally though, for hunting larger game, I definately concur with the flat meplat and also HP'ing, depending on the game. The Forster 1/8" Hp tool works very well without having to get a HP mould. If you want a PB'd bullet then the Saeco #022 500 gr FN would be my 1st choice followed by a Lee 457-450-F as 2nd choice. That's only a 450 gr bullet but it does well with the 45-70s case capacity. These would be my choices if BP is the powder excpet i would look really hard at the Lyman or Saeco Gvmt 500 gr bullets as they have the lube capacity for BP shooting. Cast of 20-1 or 16-1 and driven to 1300 fps they have "sufficed" for 130 years.

For a GC'd bullet (my choice because you can cast them pretty soft and yet drive them fast enough with accuracy for very good expansion without HPing) I use the Lee 457-500-FN. The Saeco #020, a 540 gr FN GC'd bullet, would be my choice for a heavier bullet than 500 gr. These bullets also work well with BP BTW.

Larry Gibson

[mattbowen]

Thanks again all for the reply,

Bullshop; I am casting a Lee 405gr HBFP with just wheel weights and water cooling them and am using smokeless powder with Velocities between 1200and 1500 feet per second. Using Varget I am getting around 1500fps and using Trail Boss I am getting around 1200fps. Mostly I will be hunting Whit tail and Hogs.

Thanks again.

Matt

[MT Gianni]

Please let us know if you shoot any hogs that 405 gr Lee stays in and doesn't exit. I don't foresee it myself.

[mattbowen]

MT; I didn't think the 405 would stay in at 150yds or closer but I am wanting to be able to get out to 300yds. Looking at the ballistic calculator a 535gr boolit with a MV of 1200fps at 300yds. it stills has a MV of 1048 and 1305 of energy where the 405gr has a MV of 1011fps and 919 of energy at 300yds..

Thanks again

Matt

[Bullshop]

That Lee mold is a good accurate design proven so over time since it became available nearly 30 years ago (again). It works well with BP or smokless powder.
At the velocities you are shooting ww should work OK but I would still prefer something softer for hunting.
The design is more RN than FN and is supposed to copy the 405Gov design being a RN. Since it is a nose pour there is of necessity a small meplate, but not much.
It may do even better if as Larry suggested it be hollow pointed.
I know some folks will think , "hey its a 45 it big enough already" but there really is more to killing effectiveness than that.
More effective than anything else is shot placement. If it shoots good for you and you place it well it will work good even if hard as steel.
Since shot placement is never guaranteed and the most perfect shot can be sent off course by an unseen twig I prefer what ever advantage a flat nose or hollow point, or expanding boolit by what ever means can offer.
If you are hunting deer with a 45 I cant think of a better boolit than the old (ancient) Lyman Gould 330gn HP. I suspect it will work equally well on hogs as long as they are not much over a couple hundred pounds.
If I were to be shooting a 45/70 at something like that hogzilla I read about I would be using something else entirely and it would be over 500gn.

[mattbowen]

Bullshop;

I agree that shot placement is everything, if I don't think I can't put the bullet were I want it I don't take the shot. I would rather have a complete miss then just injure an animal and have it suffer.
I also cast a Lee 340gr. RNFP with flat base and am pushing it with Varget at about 1500fps but I don't feel comfortable with it past 200 yards. I think that I would feel more comfortable with a heaver bullet, something like a 535gr or 540gr bullet. For the last 15 to 20 years I have been hunting with my 308 or 3006 using a 165gr SPBT with about 2800fps muzzle velocity. and I get pass throughs all the time.

Thanks again

Matt

[Bullshop]

Past 200 yards even with a heavy 45 over 500gn at the 1500 fps mentioned shot placement will be difficult. You will have to call the range very close, within 10 yards and have a quick sight compensating system.
There is a fellow CB member that is making a receiver sight with an adjusting cam that is tuned to specific loads and calibers. Something like that is what would be needed. Inside of 200 a max point blank range zero will keep shots inside the kill zone.
Beyond 200 by much and a lazer and one of those cam adjusting sights is what I would be looking at.

[mattbowen]

Bullshop;

When I hunt I usually hunt from a stand and measure my distances with a laser ranger finder. The longest range possible is about 300yds. I have a Leatherwood scope on my sharps but would like to try a receiver type sight like this Soule sight ( http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Catego...=RS-DP-SOULE-4 )

Thanks again

Matt

[Bullshop]

The better quality Soule type sights are very good precision instruments well suited to target shooting. They have very repeatable very precise adjustments that can be broken down to .1 of a point. They are however on the fragile side so not well suited to hunting. It is my understanding that most of the hide hunters of the 1870s and 80s used the Laurence type barrel mounted sight with vertical slider over any target sight.

The type of sight I was referring to is much more robust in construction and is quickly set or adjusted by means of a range cam built into the sight.
In use you would after determining the range set the cam at the determined range. The cam is calibrated in yards so you would simple set it to the corresponding yardage.
With the Soule sight the sight is calibrated in points so you would have to know the trajectory of your load and adjust the correct number of points. That system works very precisely but is slower and you have to know the correction where as with the cam type the sight knows the correction so you need only know the range.
I have and use the Soule type sights but for fear of breaking them limit their use to target shooting. A good quality Soul sight set can run from $300.00 to $600.00 so you can see why I am cautious.
I am anxiously awaiting the commercial production of the receiver mounted cam type hunting sights. They were announced here over the winter but I have not heard any more about them. Be certain though that when available I will have one sitting on by beloved B00, my first year production Marlin 1895, 45/70 and likely a couple others.

[frank505]

How about a buffalo heifer shot through the head with a 540 grain pointy bullet from a 45/110 Sharps. The bullet hit just left of center, exited through the top of the atlas bone, breaking it and went through the hump. She ran around our shooting hill and rejoined the herd and was grazing. We drove up and the shooter thumped her with his 475 and a 405 grain Keith bullet. I said she's done as he hit her again and dumped her on her nose. The skull clearly shows the entrance hole and the exit. Or the same rifle bullet combo hitting a cow broadside with no other animals inline. Another shooter whacks a different one with a 405 WCF and the 350 RCBS. That one piles up. while the first one goes around the base of a butte and stumbles around for a few minutes. At the processors the second animal is noticed to have a second entrance hole, a little digging and we find a wad of hair with one of them damn pointy bullets. Aparently the Sharps bullet went through the first animal and bounced off the ground and took a flight path almost 90 degrees from its original path.Use flat nose bullet like the 457193 or the Saeco 022.

[Doc Highwall]

Matt, if you are going to use WW I would not water cool them, I would just let them air cool. Better yet would be an alloy of just lead and tin from 30:1 to 50:1 for expansion at the low velocities you will be shooting.
I also agree with a flat nose for hunting or at least a bullet like Lyman's 457125 500gr Govt bullet and SAECO # 881 which is a copy of the Govt bullet.

[mattbowen]

bullshop;

That cam sight sound interesting I would like to see that If you hear anything and I don't please let me know. I was looking for a ladder type sight for my model 92 but didn't find one that I like. The one that I did get didn't fit properly.

Frank;

The Saeco 022 in 540gr FNGC looks good, Thanks

Matt

[Bullshop]

I just got word from the manufacturer tonight on the cam sights. He said they are ready for the 45/70.
I just got home from a long day in Fairbanks so am pooped but Lord willing I will try to link up some pics he sent me and a contact for him tomorrow.

[mattbowen]

Sounds good, thanks