rcbs .44 Keith type molds

[Sgt Red Leg]

Howdy Pards! Several weeks ago I ran across some info on the old and new rcbs Keith type molds. There was plenty of info on old vs new lub grooves, square vs round bottom lub grooves, a huge crimp grove on one mold. This info was accompanied by many photos from several different participants. T'was some good stuff!
Can someone redirect me to those pages??
I am looking for a rcbs .44 230 to 250 gr .430 mold. I want to feed my New Ruger Vaquero in ".44 Russian" something other than round nose pills.
Keep your powder dry~~~~and~~watch your 6!
Thanks!!

Yes....I know Ruger dosen't sell a .44 Russian. But I have one!!

[MT Gianni]

Welcome to the Forum. I moved this to it's own post to get you and answer. There is a bullet chart on CastPics but I don't think that is what you want.
http://www.castpics.net/subsite/default.html

[475BH]

Howdy Pards! Several weeks ago I ran across some info on the old and new rcbs Keith type molds. There was plenty of info on old vs new lub grooves, square vs round bottom lub grooves, a huge crimp grove on one mold. This info was accompanied by many photos from several different participants. T'was some good stuff!
Can someone redirect me to those pages??
I am looking for a rcbs .44 230 to 250 gr .430 mold. I want to feed my New Ruger Vaquero in ".44 Russian" something other than round nose pills.
Keep your powder dry~~~~and~~watch your 6!
Thanks!!

Yes....I know Ruger dosen't sell a .44 Russian. But I have one!!

Ask and thou shall receive pilgrum.
The link below will take you to an RCBS 245KT mold on EBay, buy now is $49.99.
Better hurry befurn some other raskill gitts it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/RCBS-44-245-KT-T...item19c2df4217

[Catshooter]

Welcome to the forum Sgt.

A little hard to tell from the angled pic at Ebay, but there's at least one major feature that Keith wanted that that supposed "Keith" mould doesn't have and that's driving bands of equal length. The base looks to be way wider than the other two, esp the front.

From what I"ve seen the RCBS "Keith" moulds are far from what Keith wanted, although I will be the first to admit that tracking down all of what Keith really did want is very, very tough.

The current production Lyman 429421 is closer than the RCBS, by quite a bit.


Cat

[RobS]

I'll second the Lyman current 429421 however getting a new mold from Lyman these days is shotty at best with many running undersized.

[Catshooter]

Rob,

I know many have reported undersized moulds from Lyman for a year or so now, but in that same time period I have purchased eight or nine moulds from them and they are all just fine.


Cat

[GLL]

Here is one that I posted to serve as a starting point !

Jerry

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=RCBS+44-250KT

[MakeMineA10mm]

Was it one of these?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...t=34146&page=2

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ighlight=Keith

[MakeMineA10mm]

Howdy Pards! Several weeks ago I ran across some info on the old and new rcbs Keith type molds. There was plenty of info on old vs new lub grooves, square vs round bottom lub grooves, a huge crimp grove on one mold. This info was accompanied by many photos from several different participants. T'was some good stuff!
Can someone redirect me to those pages??
I am looking for a rcbs .44 230 to 250 gr .430 mold. I want to feed my New Ruger Vaquero in ".44 Russian" something other than round nose pills.
Keep your powder dry~~~~and~~watch your 6!
Thanks!!

Yes....I know Ruger dosen't sell a .44 Russian. But I have one!!

Sgt. Red Legs,
I've been loading the 44 Russian to duplicate the 44 Henry for several years now. I've also been cogitating on a 230gr RNFP design to use for target shooting. If you can be patient with me, I'll keep working on it, and when I get it done, maybe we can have a group buy??

[Iron Mike Golf]

I have an RCBS 44-250-KT. It has a round-bottom lube groove and the base drive band is much wider that the front two. It's also out of round by a couple thou (longer along the parting line). Mold blocks also don't fit tight together and cast offset halves if I don't hold it right. I think I need new locating pins.

[Ohio Rusty]

I got rid of my moulds that were RCBS. After the cost of the mould .... then the outrageous prices for the handles, I would have $100 dollars invested in a $30 dollar mould with handles. I have pretty much now stayed with Lyman or Lee ... No headaches or hassles in trying to match moulds with handles.
Just my personal experiences ...... Others mileage may vary ............
Ohio Rusty ><>

[Catshooter]

I agree Rusty. RCBS does many things very well, but moulds isn't one of them.


Cat

[EDK]

Go over to mp-molds.com and see if Miha has any of his 429421/503 clone molds in 4 cavity brass or 6 cavity aluminum left....and jump on it in either variation. Our buddy MMA10MM had a d*** good LEE group buy mould awhile back too...it feeds some better in my MARLIN Cowboy rifles. (I have all three molds.) If there are better versions of Uncle Elmer's classic, please let me know.

If you're going to shoot that pistol much, you want a four or six cavity mold. I like making good boolits, but it's because I want six big holes in a small area on my targets...I'm running 48 rounds+ a day out of VAQUEROS in 44 and once in awhile 357.

MMA10MM The 230 grain round nose flat point sounds good. I'd like a NOE 5 banger with 1 gas check and 4 plain base. Figure on a nose length that will feed in a MARLIN too.

We all know there ain't no such thing as having too many good molds.

[Sgt Red Leg]

OK, thanks to all! Thank you MT Gianni for moving to where I belonged! Thank you GLL for directions to your photos....that was what I was trying to relocate.......boy, lots of good info/ideas here.
Why are huge crimp grooves so popular?? The groove on the Ballisti-cast #1103 and the rcbs .44-250K are gargantuan! The rcbs boolet second from the right (in photos of 09-04-05) has a better crimp groove IMO. I like the driving and base bands on the Lyman .429-336. I like the drawing by Tom of 10MM', boolet.
I am loading for a Vaquero w/a 4" barrel to be used as atrail/camp gun as well as a general shooter. My son and daughte both shoot #3 S&W clones in SASS. I am really impressed with them. They shoot 205 grRNL. I shoot .45 colt w/255gr RNL.
How heavy is too heavy for the Russian? I would think that the 230-245 gr. range would be good. W/camp/trail use in mind I would like to stick w/the Keith type bullet.
10MM, thanks for info and look forward to anything else you come up with.
I AM GONNA LIKE THIS SITE!!!!!!

Sgt Red Leg

[MakeMineA10mm]

Wow! Thanks EDK! That unsolicited, uncompensated endorsement from such a shooter and caster means a lot. I'm very glad you like my version (heavyweight) of the Keith!

Sgt. RedLegs, I doubt you'll find anyone made a Keith that in 44-cal that is lighter than 245grs. The problem is it's impossible to match up to his criteria when the bullet weighs any lighter than that. There are lighter SWCs (like the Lyman 429215), but they don't adhere to Keith's design principles.

My RN-come-RNFP design is in my mind something for Small Game or Target shooting. In fact, I think I'll call it the "SGT" (for Small Game / Target). Lighter weight, but heavy enough to be of proper ballistic ballance for the .43" bore -- I was thinking 230gr myself.

I might be looking into a HB version based on the RG4 moulds from NOE, but that would require nose-pour, so I'm not sure that's do-able. I've got a lot of the nose and body figured out, but I want to run it by a couple people first. I might even try to make up some samples (lathe-turned or composite from using other boolits) to see how if it works out like I'm thinking. Might even have a custom, one-of-a-kind made to test it before starting the GB.

[EDK]

Go to lasc.us and look at Articles by Glenn Fryxell...specifically on the 44 semi wad cutter...lots of other ones worth reading there also. IIRC Elmer Keith used 429336 as one of his starting points in developing his designs. See if you can find the links to MMA10MM's design and the group buy...lot of information there also. Start from a similar base design and modify for the same criteria and come up with a very similar result with minor modifications.

The big crimping groove is to make sure the boolit doesn't jump crimp. Elmer's life was lived out in the wilderness, dealing with hostile livestock and wild animals. He wanted to hit them hard and fatally and that means heavy loads. When it is 30 or more horseback miles to town or neighbors and no such thing as a telephone or cell phone, life can get real tough real quick. (FWIW, last summer I started walking into the Hole In The Wall canyon near Kaycee Wyoming. After awhile, I realized no one knew where I was going, my cell phone didn't have service and the last people or house I'd seen was quite a few miles back....and at 62, I take more pills than your grandma!) Think about that situation 24/7, year round.

My 44s get some LYMAN 429352, some 429667, some 429421/clones, and some of the RANCH DOG TLC 432 265 (and NOE PB clone.) What do they have in common...big meplat and weight around 250 or above for starters.

[GLL]

I consider the RCBS 44-250-KT to be one the finest of the keith-style moulds ! I own three that have equal width bands and "square" lube groove. I run two or three moulds at the same time and get outstanding results. Keep in mind that RCBS has made at least three and perhaps four variations of the same mould. Not all of the are are good as my versions !
One variation has rounded lube grooves and the other has a VERY narrow front band !

I use the 429421 and its various Group Buy clones as much as any mould I own !

Jerry

RCBS 44-250-KT in the center

[44magLeo]

I don't know how well the RCBS version works but I've used the Lyman 429421 for at least 25 years. It works very well at most any velocity. In your Russian you should be able to shhotit to 650-700 fps. And at those velocities staraght ACWW will work great.
I've shoot it at about 500 fps in straight lead.
On the 230 gr RFN boolit, I like the Idea. I have a Lee 200 gr. Loaded to the crimp groove it's too short to feed thru my Marlin. Seated to crimp in the first groove behind the crimp groove works thru the Marlin But don't leave much in the case.I was thinking if it had one more lube groove and driving band it would work better. Have the crimpgroove were the first lube groov is.I guess leave it the same from the crimp groove back just make the nose longer. So it would have about a 1.590 to 1.600 over all length in a 44 mag case.

[Sgt Red Leg]

OK boys, it is after 0100 and I need to get some sleep and think about this.......I think I hace a few more questions!

[reader]

I recently bought RCBS mold 44-250-K, product number #82080.

I wanted to get the one displayed by GLL (see the link in this thread or the third in the photo, post #17) or shown by Handloader few years ago. To my disappointment the design was changed. The front band is shorter, about 0.080, middle and rear bands are about 0.100, grease groove shorter. Look at the photo. Too bad the original mold design is not available anymore. I am thinking to get rid of this new mold.