Originally Posted by Doc Highwall
Heck yeah!
That's a lot better than I'll ever manage. When groups get close to bore size, that's tight.
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Heck yeah!
That's a lot better than I'll ever manage. When groups get close to bore size, that's tight.
I'm almost ready to get going. I bought a Lee C-309-200-R from one the fine gentlemen here.
I went to my local gunshop, ridded myself of a handgun I didn't want anymore and came home with a box of Hornady gas checks and a Lee 309 sizer. (amongst other goodies) I've most likely got some lapping to do on the sizer. I'll have to wait till I get a bore dimension.
Picked up a pound of 5744 and Lymans new book.
Now, can anybody tell me what the difference is in XMP 5744, XMR 5744 and AA 5744?
The only powders I ever load with is AA. I know what AA 5744 is, but what's the difference in it and XMR or XMP??
Depending on the cartridge, Lyman's 49th edition has the different names listed.
They are different names for the same powder, but produced at different times. Since Western Powder bought AA, they dropped the AA name.
So XMP & XMR refer to a time of manufacture? That's dumb. Sounds like a misnomer to me. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but it seems like a good way of confusing exceeding cautious people. I will reread the book, but I didn't see a darn thing about that. Personally I think that sort of thing ought to be explained.
So, I am getting there. I bought a used Lee mold of 200g RN design. After many hours of Leementing today, it casts one heck of a nice boolit. I slugged the bore and came up with a diameter of .3092 -.3096 depending on which end of the rifle you are measuring. I have a .309 Lee sizer and my boolits are falling .311-.3123 and ever so slightly out of round. I'm going to open the sizer up to .3108 - .311. I think that will be perfect for my bore. Correct?
Next. I am using a Lee .308 winchester die set. I have GOT to get the dies to open up the brass more. If I seat a boolit as it is, it will size the boolit down to .309. UNACCEPTABLE. I have a lathe, I can make a larger expander pin but I'd rather not. Is there another solution?
My christmas presents came in today. A chrony, a box of Hornady match brass, a 9mm hollow point mold, a round ball mold for 12g......I got lots to do, I'm rather excited.
Ohhhh, btw, should I be using a match primer? I have a rifle that's worthy of match grade components, I am using brand new match brass, and I will be weight matching my boolits +/- half a grain. Will the primer make a difference? I'll likely use what I have until I get the ball rolling.
Here's the final progression of my dummy rounds I made today as I established OAL. Damn this is exciting!
Oh yeah, thanks everyone for all the help. Catch you guys on the flip side, there'll be a round on me.
You'll need a Lyman M die or something similar. This will enlarge the case neck to facilitate loading cast bullets.
How large of bullet can be chambered without resistance in the neck? Ideally, your cast boolit should fill the throat, or within .0005" (1/2 thousandth). If your rifle has a .311" throat, use a .311" sizer. Flare one of your case mouths and seat one of your UNSIZED bullets and see if it will chamber. Leave it long on the OAL so as to see how long the throat and leade are. Hopefully the nose of your bullet will slide up into the bore without too much resistance. Witness marks along its length are good provided you can unchamber a loaded round without leaving a boolit stuck in the throat.
Match primers? I used F210s in many of my loads, but F210M in some.
5744 in the 308? My 30-30 likes 17gr with 175gr. My 8x57 likes 18-19gr with 195-250gr. The K31 seems to like 21-22gr with 175-200gr, and the case capacity is the same to the bottom of the neck as 30-06. 23-24gr seems to be a sweet spot in a pair of 30-06s with 175-200gr. You may see multiples of sweet spots in your powder charge experiments. Don't be concerned about a little unburned powder with 5744 as it seems to be normal in relatively low pressure loads.
With 5744 I start low and work up 1gr at a time looking for promising groups, checking for leading, etc. Repeat the test groups several times. When you exceed your alloy and/or lube, accuracy will go from acceptable to terrible. Check for lead, and if none visible, go back and try a load that seemed to shoot reasonably well and see if it still does. One of my criteria for a working load is to be able to shoot many rounds without loss of accuracy, and repeatable group size on multiples of days at the range.
It will chamber an unsized boolit. The one in the picture is unsized. It took 4 or five boolits to get there, but I found the length at which the boolit touched the rifling and set back a couple of thousandths from that. I will play with that number as time goes on.
I really don't want to have to buy another die right now. Lee sizers use a split nut, single slit collet type retainer for the decapping expander pin. I think for right now I will make one large enough to expand the neck in two steps like the Lyman M die does. If it works, it works. Eventually I have to get a neck sizing only die as I only have one 308, there's no need to full length resize and wear out my new brass, and I'll pick up an M die then.
What do you do for a crimp? The edge of case is right in the middle of a lube groove. I experimented with the Lee factory crimp die and I can get a decent crimp without collapsing the case into the lube groove.
Welp, gotta get that expander thing worked out and I'll be off to the range in no time.
Crimp? I don't except for 45-70 and pistol cartridges.
Lyman M dies are pretty inexpensive and are supposed to give a concentric, 2 diameter neck.
So neck tension should be as tight as possible without causing the boolit to be downsized? That's good to know. It'll take some experimenting to get an expander just right. Thanks!
Dean, make your M-die only .001" to .002" smaller then your sized bullet. I am shooting a bullet sized .310" and my die is .309" with the larger diameter almost .312" to start the bullet in the case.
Well, I made a pin that opens the mouth of the case, and will flare the mouth too if needed. I seated an unsized bullet and I used my Lee factory crimp die ONLY to close the very slight bell I made. Tried as I might, I couldn't budge the bullet with my fingers. I pulled the bullet with an RCBS hammer and it measured .3105 That's right where I want to be. I'm thinking of opening up my sizing die to .311. I'll be pan lubing and I'll only need the sizer for seating the gas check and making sure they are round.
So where are the holes in this plan so far? I got a specific lot of brass in from midway and I'm almost finished prepping it. I'm getting anxious to burn some powder but I don't want to halfass anything.
Dean on your expander I would make it more like this then you will not have to use the LEE crimp die. This one I made out of carbide.
I would only need to use the crimp die if I flare the mouth. As I have only done one dummy so far, it is entirely possible I won't need a flare.
Dean, I only use my expander and seat a bullet. The small amount the the case mouth gets expanded does not interfere with chambering and helps with alignment, also the brass gets less work hardening.
I flare the case mouth enough to mostly cover the gas check. I have my seater backed out enough that it doesn't engage to crimp. There is no worry about the neck tension sizing your bullet down in diameter so long as it has a GC.
It sounds like you're well on your way. Make sure you have the copper out of the barrel and go shoot.
I bought some of Montana Xtreme 50BMG copper remover. Being an Accurate Arms patron, I had to try it. Holy Shnikies that is the strongest smelling stuff I ever have smelt. There was a warning label on the bottle...... justifiably!!
I spent a rather large handful of patches this time, but wow. I am in doubt that it has EVER been this clean. Bring on the lead. WOOT!
No, sadly it'll be two weeks before I can get to the range. I will have my first 50 rounds loaded next weekend but I'll have to wait. *sigh*
I like the way Chargar thinks
KISS
Dean - get the barrel clean - really clean.
Don Verna
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