Looking for a .444 load

[grubbylabs]

Hi all,

I just got my first lever gun and it is a Winchester model 94 in .444. I am just getting into casting and so far I have only produced some lead muffins while gathering my casting stuff.

At any rate I was going through my new Lyman book and it does not have a load for this gun. I have a 240 grain SWC two cavity Lee mold that I bought for my 44 mag. Does any one have a load that would work in my .444 with that bullet?


Thanks
Grubby

[MakeMineA10mm]

Well, the SWC can often be a challenge in leverguns, and in my limited experience with Winchesters, the SWC is more of a challenge in them, than in Marlins...

That said, if you can get it to function, you should be able to find plenty of good loads. Alliant, Hodgdon, and Western Powders all have on-line load-data centers, and last time I checked, they all had 444 Marlin data.

My Marlin 444S likes the 434640 group buy (fat) copy of the Lyman 429640. This is a 285gr RNFP-GC. I'd recommend you look for something similar from Mihec, NOE, or one of the other custom makers. Check the group buy forum too -- never know when this is going to be re-run. Here's a pic:

[grubbylabs]

Thanks

[MakeMineA10mm]

BTW, some of the best high-performance powders in the Triple Four are:

4198 (either brand)
RL-7
H-322
H-335 (though I've found I don't like the blast of this powder in this cartridge. It's high-velocity, but at the expense of being very disturbing to shoot.)

Some good reduced-load powders (fun plinking with the big rifle), include:

AA-5744
4227

(I bet SR-4759 would be good too, but I've never used it in the 444.)

[grubbylabs]

Hay thanks I was thinking about getting a pound of the IMR 4198.

[high standard 40]

Back when I had a 444, IMR4198 was my go-to powder.

[grubbylabs]

I guess you have to look in the right section. But I did find some loads listed for it. I think I am going to try the IMR 4198 powder.

[arcticbreeze]

H322 is my go to with the 444 however all my molds for that gun are 320-400 grains.

[6pt-sika]

BTW, some of the best high-performance powders in the Triple Four are:

4198 (either brand)
RL-7
H-322
H-335 (though I've found I don't like the blast of this powder in this cartridge. It's high-velocity, but at the expense of being very disturbing to shoot.)

Some good reduced-load powders (fun plinking with the big rifle), include:

AA-5744
4227

(I bet SR-4759 would be good too, but I've never used it in the 444.)

I agree 100% with H322 , H335 and RL-7 as I've used those in full blown loads from 200-400 grains in the variouse 444's !
At the moment I have one early 444 set up with a 300 grain SWC GC bullet and H4198 . This has never been one of my favourites but I wanted to give it a try non the less !

As to reduced I used XMP5744 for a number of years in 444 as well as quite a few other calibers and it worked nicely for killing deer . Granted I never expected to shoot over 100 yards ! Matter of fact I popped one poor unsuspecting deer this season with a older 444 shooting a Lyman 429640HP Devestator pushed with a good charge of XMP5744 . Used the Ranch Dog 432-265 , 285 and 300 grainers with XMP5744 and they killed very well on deer inside 100 yards . Also used Boomer Mikey's 434-330GC that turned out to be 315 grains with XMP5744 and just plain POLE AXED a buck and doe one morning and again they were WELL inside 100 yards .

I've not used IMR4198 or SR4759 .
I have however used XMR2015 with very good results in the 444 both with the cast bullets and jacketed bullets ! Matter of fact XMR2015 is the ONLY powder I've ever loaded jacketed bullets with in any of my 444's !
Varget is another powder thats worked very well for me with 325 grain and over bullets !

[6pt-sika]

If I were now buying powders for the 444 to shoot cast I think I would have to rank them in this order for MUST HAVE !

1. H322

2. RL-7

3. XMR2015

4. Varget

5. H335

6. XMP5744

I "try and keep" 8 pounds of H322 around at all times now as well as atleast 5 pounds of RL-7 and 2 or 3 pounds of all the others mentioned .

[6pt-sika]

H322 is my go to with the 444 however all my molds for that gun are 320-400 grains.

I'd be intrested to see what your 400 grain 444 bullet looks like !

I have three different 400 grainers I've had cut to date !

Mountain Molds did one as a sorta copy of "405WCF's" design of his 434-400GC . I also had LBT cut me a 433-400GC mold and last but not least BRP got me going with a "Ranch Dog Style" with traditinal lube grooves in a 432-400GC .

Those bullets have been for my 2002 Ballard rifled faster twist Marlin 444 .

While the rest of my molds 200-375 grains have been for the older slow twist Micro Groove 444's .

[6pt-sika]

Well, the SWC can often be a challenge in leverguns, and in my limited experience with Winchesters, the SWC is more of a challenge in them, than in Marlins...

That said, if you can get it to function, you should be able to find plenty of good loads. Alliant, Hodgdon, and Western Powders all have on-line load-data centers, and last time I checked, they all had 444 Marlin data.

My Marlin 444S likes the 434640 group buy (fat) copy of the Lyman 429640. This is a 285gr RNFP-GC. I'd recommend you look for something similar from Mihec, NOE, or one of the other custom makers. Check the group buy forum too -- never know when this is going to be re-run. Here's a pic:

BRP can hook you up with that mold in a 2 cavity for about $75 I think with about a 4 week turn around .

I'd get one myself if I didn't already have a original Lyman 2 cavity 429640 .

[MakeMineA10mm]

I just love that boolit. It was my first group buy when I joined here. In fact, getting in on that group buy is what pushed me from lurker to member! Boomer Mikey is a heck of a salesman for this boolit, but if you try it, you'd know why. It's about as close to ideal as one can get in a heavy-weight 44-cal boolit. Big Meplat for killing power, high weight without excessive recoil or seating depth, nose shape works in leverguns or revolvers, easy to hollow-point, Mikey probably had more points, but you get the idea.

In all my research (reading of others' experiences, though not necessarily what's said in the loading manuals, but real users who have no particular brand to push) and my own experience with the 444, the powders broke down like this:

H335 - Velocity king, but with very sharp muzzle blast/over-pressure. Being a ball powder, it crams a lot of energy into a given space, and it's burning rate is just right to put a lot of it into the 444 case. Call me whimpy, but in my own experience, I didn't feel 50-75 fps was worth the level of muzzle blast to use this powder beyond testing.

RL-7 - In spite of being too fast on the burn-rate chart, it tends to give top velocities with cast boolits. Check out BearTooth Bullets website. The company owner is a 444-nut, and has done a lot of work with this powder and cast bullets from normal weights all the way to super-heavies. I'm not gutsy enough to load his loads, but I found I could get real close to them. Doesn't give the same performance with jacketed for some reason...

4198s - Allegedly what the factories load their commercial ammo with, these powders for many, many years were the undisputed "go-to" powders for this caliber. Of course, that was in the day when 240grs was top-end for 44 cals. Still great performers, a lot of people find that this powder is the top-performer with 240gr JSP/JHP, and ties for top-performance with other powders for 265gr JSPs. This powder is the stick-version of H-335 in terms of packing the maximum amount of energy into the space provided in the 444 with the ideal burn rate, but because it's a stick powder, it falls behind 335 by 50-75fps, and it also loses it's advantage with heavier bullets.

H-322 - This powder is more compact and slower-burning than 4198, so you can fit more of it in the case than the 4198s, but it's burning rate is so slow that it doesn't give any advantage until you get to heavier bullets (265grs and above). This is THE powder with 300gr bullets in the 444. Due to simplicity-sake, and because I use a lot of 322 in other cartridges, I tend to use it for all my 444 reloading, both jacketed and cast. For hunting loads, I use 280gr Swift A-Frames and the above-pictured 285gr 434640, and I load them both with H-322. I can play a little with RL-7 and get a slight velocity pick-up on the cast bullet, but 322 wins with the A-Frame every time.

6pt-sika is "the man" when it comes to 444s. You should go to the levergun forum and search his thread on his 444 rifle collection. It's amazing/impressive!

[hunter64]

I have also tried IMR3031 for the heavier 444 bullets with good results but by far and away my best performers have been RL-7 and H-322.

[krag35]

For everyday plinking or shooting just for fun, I am running the Lyman cowboy bullet (429667) ahead of Blue Dot. when I take My 444 (Winchester) Elk hunting, I am shooting a group buy 280 gr LBT copy ahead of 2015.

I have tried Unique, H335, AAC2520, and 4756. Blue Dot and 2015 are what I settled on.

[Firebricker]

Like whats been posted above H-322 has been one of the best powder's in my .444. Later I'll see if I can scan a load table Brian Pierce did in an old Handloader issue. I was working out of town when I found my .444 in a local paper and bought it. Then during the same job I went to a gun show and found a set of RCBS dies for $15 and that issue of HL with the ...444 article on the cover for $2. I knew then it was meant to be !!

[grubbylabs]

Well I could not help my self I bought some 240 grain JSP and some IMR 4198. I only bought a pound of it so if I don't like it I can always change. It was the one powder that both my Speer book and Hornady book listed for all the bullet weights.

[arcticbreeze]

I'd be intrested to see what your 400 grain 444 bullet looks like !

I have three different 400 grainers I've had cut to date !

Mountain Molds did one as a sorta copy of "405WCF's" design of his 434-400GC . I also had LBT cut me a 433-400GC mold and last but not least BRP got me going with a "Ranch Dog Style" with traditinal lube grooves in a 432-400GC .

Those bullets have been for my 2002 Ballard rifled faster twist Marlin 444 .

While the rest of my molds 200-375 grains have been for the older slow twist Micro Groove 444's .

My 444 is a new one with the faster twist. My favorite mold is the Mihec brass mold he made in the cramer style. Mine is a solid FP version with out pins. It was his test mold he put up on Ebay. With this mold and its full diameter ogive (.433 with my alloy) I have to short seat a little and crimp with the LFC die. I also have a 385 gr that was cut by Mountain Molds based on Glen Fryxells design with the reduced (.429) ogive that casts 397 grains with my alloy. Thay both shoot great but the Mihec is a little rougher to cycle with is huge meplate but man does it ever put the smack down on wild pigs.

[6pt-sika]

My 444 is a new one with the faster twist. My favorite mold is the Mihec brass mold he made in the cramer style. Mine is a solid FP version with out pins. It was his test mold he put up on Ebay. With this mold and its full diameter ogive (.433 with my alloy) I have to short seat a little and crimp with the LFC die. I also have a 385 gr that was cut by Mountain Molds based on Glen Fryxells design with the reduced (.429) ogive that casts 397 grains with my alloy. Thay both shoot great but the Mihec is a little rougher to cycle with is huge meplate but man does it ever put the smack down on wild pigs.

I have a copy of the MiHec Cramer mold also !

It was a 433-295GC HP as well as I can remmeber !

Used that one last season to knock over a 4 point buck in august while hunting with DCP's . It did an excellent job I might add !

Hmmm I'd like to see a pic of your 397 grainer some time !

One can never have to many 400 grain molds for the 444

[DaveD]

I'd be intrested to see what your 400 grain 444 bullet looks like !

I have three different 400 grainers I've had cut to date !

Mountain Molds did one as a sorta copy of "405WCF's" design of his 434-400GC . I also had LBT cut me a 433-400GC mold and last but not least BRP got me going with a "Ranch Dog Style" with traditinal lube grooves in a 432-400GC .

Those bullets have been for my 2002 Ballard rifled faster twist Marlin 444 .

While the rest of my molds 200-375 grains have been for the older slow twist Micro Groove 444's .

Craig,

I'm covered up to 350 Gr. but wanna get a 375 and 400gr mold. If you could only have one of each, which woulf you go with?

I can't remember a GB for either of these on here, do you think they would go?