OAL concerns for Lee 452-230-TC

[dicko]

Okay so I've got about 250 of these 230gr TCs cast up and I'm getting ready to put a few loads together for accuracy/reliability testing but I'm running into a snag with the cartridge overall length.

You have undoubtedly got a very short throat, as another contributor has also said. I am not familiar with that gun, but I have cast tens of thousands of that bullet for customers, with no problem that I know of.

[Dale53]

The Classic "standard" load for 230 gr Hard Ball is 5.0 grs of Bullseye. Since 231 is somewhat slower burning than Bullseye, your 4.2 should about be the equivalent (or a bit slower) of 4.0 Bullseye. In other words, in the "target load" category.

Due to the shape of the Lee TC it will ALWAYS be seated to a shorter overall length than jacketed hard ball.

My Lee 230 gr TC is a particularly good six cavity mould. The bullets practically fall out of the mould when it is opened. The bullets are not as round as my Custom Mihec moulds (nor am I surprised) as they are a couple of thousandths out of round. However, they size nicely and shoot very well (just about 1 1/4" at 25 yards consistently).

I have three 1911 platforms, two custom guns and a Kimber CDP Ultr II with 3" barrel. I set the bullet up using the shortest chamber in the bunch as a gauge. I deliberately headspace on the bullet for consistent ignition. I size my bullets to .452" and seat them until a loaded round dropped in the chamber is seated with the base of the case flush with the barrel hood.

I get NO functioning problems and the rounds shoot well in my two S&W Model 625's, also. I get absolutely NO leading. My bullet alloy is WW's+2% tin. My lube is Lars White Label Carnauba Red. I use Lees Factory Crimp die and taper crimp to .470" measured at the extreme case mouth of the loaded round.

The Lee 230 gr TC is my choice for a service load in the 1911's. It makes for a near instant reload for the 625's with full moon clips, also. For target loads, I prefer the MiHec H&G #68 200 gr SWC as it cuts a clean hole in the target and shoots a bit more accurately (well under 1" at 25 yards off a rest).

Dale53.

[Jech]

Some great info there Dale, thank you! When you headspace on the bullet, are you chambering against the ogive angle or does the force of the cycling slide "jam" the bullet into the freebore?

I know that's not very descriptive, I'll try to snap a picture or two later tonight when I'm not time-constrained by my lunch break. My linear thought was if any jamming is occuring, it could randomly be enough to squish off a ring of lead that fouls the chamber in rare/occasional circumstances.

Ninja edit: the idea of the pressure-homogenizing bullet-headspace is really attractive, gotta work up some different OALs and see how these do next range session.

[gray wolf]

I load my 45 ACP bullets the same as Dale53 ( good man )
My rounds drop into my barrel under there own weight and sit flush with the barrel hood,
Or perhaps 5 to .008 below. But mostly flush with the hood.
They do not stick in the barrel but just make enough contact to stop them from going any deeper. IMHO they do not go any deeper as the pistol functions.
I don't think the inertia of the slide will make them go deeper, or walk out of the case.

My linear thought was if any jamming is occuring, it could randomly be enough to squish off a ring of lead that fouls the chamber in rare/occasional circumstances.

That is a justified concern, can it happen sure,
Has it happened to me in the last 5,000 rounds ? no not to any degree that I have noticed
nor has it caused me to have to take notice.
I am sure a little build up of crud is possible at the junction of the ogive and the spot it contacts the barrel, but again, no problem here or for my shooting friend
with another 5 or 6,000 rounds fired.
With all the different lengths found in the 45 case I don;t see any other way to have the back of the case in the same place every time.
I am sure Dale will get back to your question.

Sam

[Dale53]

Yes, I am headspacing on the bullet. Keep in mind, my suggestions are for cast bullets, only. You must allow a bit extra headspace for jacketed bullets as they are SO hard that there is NO give on them whatsoever. So, you have to allow for a bit of dirt impeding the slide from completely closing. You DO have a bit of wiggle room with cast as it will engrave the rifling a bit if one round is just slightly long.

During a five year period, I shot 75,000 rounds (actual count) of .45 ACP's in my 1911's (mostly in one gun) without a single failure to feed. That includes 50 major IPSC matches as well as two Soldier of Fortune three gun matches.

This is a proven method of seating cast bullets whether round nose, SWC, or Truncated Cone. NOTE: you do the same thing with jacketed bullets but you must allow a bit more clearance (up to .010") for absolute reliability.

Dale53