how much HS-6 to put behind .690 round ball?

[mini14]

I cast 50 round ball today. they weigh around 475 grains. I put 37.5 grains HS-6 behind my lee 7/8 oz and was thinking of using the same load for the ball.

Thought?

[mini14]

well i put 37.5 grains behind them. The Lee data calls for up to 40 gr behind a 1oz key drive so i figure it shouldn't be unsafe to start with 37.5. 38 is also the max Lee says to use with the 7/8 key drive. I loaded and shot some 7/8 key drive with the 37.5 and it felt quite tame.

I won't have time to test until Christmas week when I have time off from work.

[longbow]

You do not provide much info. What are you using?

- hull length?

- hull make?

- primer?

- wad?

You should check the Hodgdon site for loads:

http://data.hodgdon.com/shotshell_load.asp

The 0.690" round ball is significantly heavier than 7/8 oz. at over 1 1/16 oz.

Taking a quick look at the Hodgdon loading data, it depends on your hull/primer/wad combination as to whether that load is safe. Most of the 1 oz. loads they list use less than 36 grs. HS-6.

The only other load data I have for HS-6 is from Reloading for Shotgunners and it is in agreement with the Hodgdon info.

Not sure of your experience in reloading shotshells but if you aren't aware, small changes in components can produce large changes in pressures in shotshells.

The Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbook shows an example where a change of primer increases pressure by 3000 PSI. If that load was already at or near max. allowable pressure it has become an unsafe load.

It is best to follow reloading shotshell recipes exactly and not substitute components.

I should also ask ~ are you shooting through cylinder bore or choked barrel? If choked then the ball/shotcup combo if used should fit easily through the choke. The Lee Drive key slug can be shot through a choke with no danger. Not true of a tight fitting ball.

Longbow

[mini14]

its a mossberg smooth bore slug barrel

win 209 primers

win hulls from super x slugs i fired a week ago

win aa wads

your right, the hodgdon site does have one 1 1/8 oz slug load and they are calling for only 30 gr hs-6

Lead Slugs 12 7/8 oz. Slugmaster HS-6 Win. 209 1-.135" Card + 1-1 1/2" Felt + .135" CA 47 10,300 PSI 1500
Lead Slugs 12 7/8 oz. Buckbuster HS-6 Win. 209 WAA12R 33.5 10,300 PSI 1450
Lead Slugs 12 1 oz. Buckbuster HS-6 CCI 209 WAA12R 32 11,000 PSI 1450
Lead Slugs 12 1 oz. Slugmaster HS-6 Win. 209 1-.135" Card + 1-1/2" Felt + 1-.135" CA 35 10,200 PSI 1450
Lead Slugs 12 1 1/8 oz. Buckbuster HS-6 CCI 209M WAA12R 30.3 10,900 PSI 1350

I only have 5 test loads loaded up, so i will probably fire one and see how it goes or i might **** can em' and cut back to 30gr.

[mini14]

i think i'm going to open them up and replace the balls with 7/8 oz slugs and then load the balls with 30gr to start off.

thanks for talking some sense into me. Although I doubt they will generate the pressure the regular win super x slugs do, those things are stiff!

[mini14]

ok so i cut the crimps off those shells and will reevaluate my load

don't want to maim myself!

i been loadin for a long time...really!

[longbow]

Best to be cautious! If you were really familiar with the load and knew it was low pressure through pressure testing or published pressures then at least you would know the risks.

It would hard (not impossible) to push a low pressure load to critical levels with a primer or wad substitution but very easy to push a high pressure load into unsafe territory.

Shotgun recipes can be finicky and produce "undesirable" results if they are altered. It is difficult to predict what will happen with much other than reducing the powder charge ~ less bang.

I found slug loading quite frustrating because I couldn't seem to get the selection of components for many of the Lyman recipes so I collected as much loading info as I could. Often, different sources show similar loads but with differing components ~ at safe pressure. If you compare though you will often see that just a change of hull or primer can make pressures jump up or down a whole bunch.

It is generally accepted by many that using shot load recipes with slugs will produce lower pressure than the shot load so is safe. I believe that though I do not have pressure testing equipment to prove it. I do compare recipes between different published sources and shot vs. slug loads for some home made slugs of equivalent weight but I do not stray far from the published powder charge or primer for a given hull.

A change in volume can also have a dramatic effect on pressure. Large volume straight walled hulls tend to run at lower pressures than the compression formed tapered hulls like Win AA with a given powder charge. So swapping hulls could result in more unpleasant results than having to adjust the wad column height.

Not wanting to sound like I am lecturing, I would just hate to see someone get hurt.

Take care.

Longbow

[mini14]

the advice is very much appreciated.

[Bloodman14]

FWIW, I load 690's in Claybuster wads (WAA12 equiv.) in front of 16 grs. of Clays in Remington Black Magic hulls (the kind you find at Wally-World called Game Loads) for 1090 fps. With a RB, you want controlability, not velocity!

[longbow]

Maybe I can also be a little more helpful with loads. As mentioned, I have collected quite a bit of loading info over the years.

I have recipes for 0.690" balls in at least one edition of the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbook, I have BPI's slug loading manual which lists recipes for 0.690" balls and one of their leaflets specifically for 0.690" balls (different recipes ~ go figure!).

Personally, I have had little success with 0.690" balls in my guns. It seems they are too big for most of the shotcups I have tried so have sheared or wrinkled petals and are too small to shoot naked ~ with any accuracy anyway. I have not tried donut wads with them yet but some people say that works well or using an inverted gas seal under the ball to keep it centered in the bore.

I have had best success with 0.662" balls in shotcups and with bore size naked balls.

Missionary5155 does well with 0.685" balls in shotcups if you search for his posts.

Out to 50 yards or so a good ball load is quite accurate and I can expect 3" to 4" groups. Easy to cast and easy to load.

If you let me know what components you have or can get I can post some loads for you. Also, as mentioned, using shot loads of equal weight as a basis for a ball load is acceptable but will normally yield lower velocity than "slug" loads.

Longbow

[mini14]

ok so far this is the components i have.
hulls by BPI
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Reloading/Shotshell-Reloading%7C/pc/104792580/c/104761080/sc/104568480/Ballistic-Products-Primed-Hulls/740469.uts?destination=/catalog/browse/shooting-reloading-shotshell-reloading/_/N-1100196/Ns-CATEGORY_SEQ_104568480[/URL]

i have win 209 primers but the hulls are already primed

win aa12 wads

hs-6 i also have clays

my bore measures .729 as close as i can tell with my plastic rcbs caliper

the ball in the wad measures .735

the lee 7/8 in the same wad is about .733-.734 near as i can tell

[mini14]

Gunnerd are you using plain old "clays" ?

not "international clays"...

I have the one labeled only "clays"

[longbow]

Well, I am not going to be a lot of help here unfortunately.

I went to the BPI site to try to identify the hulls but failed! There is no indication of brand or hull type on the Cabela's site (that I found at least) and no BPI numbers that match anything in the Cabelas URL.

They look to be Fiocchi or Cheddite based on photos on the BPI site but I can't tell for sure. Is there any head stamp or name on them anywhere?

Did they come with any loading data?

If they are Cheddite or Fiocchi, they are likely straight walled hulls so large volume ~ good for slug loading.

If Cheddite they are likely primed with Cheddite 209 primers and if Fiocchi primed with FIO 616 primers.

Oddly, the BPI slug manual does not show any 0.690" ball loads for either hull!

The BPI single page load data sheet for 0.690" balls does list Fiocchi hi-base, Fiocchi lo-base and Cheddite hulls but no loads with HS-6 or Clays.

In fact I see only one slug load for Clays in my loading manuals and that is the BPI slug manual for:

- Federal Gold Medal hull
- Win 209 primer
- 21.4 grs. of Clays
- BPI GBP LB12 wad
- 0.690" ball
- pressure is 10,300 (PSI? LUP? doesn't say)

I do have load data for HS-6 but only for Federal, Remington and Winchester hulls for slugs ranging from 1 oz to 1 1/8 oz.

If you can find some identification for the hulls it might help.

There are of course lots of shot load recipes for Clays for 1 1/8 oz loads which should be perfectly safe under the 0.690" ball which is just under 1 1/8 oz.

I don't see any HS-6 loads for less than 1 1/4 oz shot weight so any of those should be safe for the lighter ball. The HS-6 loads I find for 1 1/4 oz. range from 33 to 36 grs. max depending on components and pressures range from 9200 LUP to 10,600 LUP.

Again, if you are unsure of components the safety of the load is unknown.

Lee does list "universal" loads for any plastic hull with any primer for shot loads. These tend to be low pressure/low velocity loads that are safe to swap components with. They do list Clays for 1 1/8 and and HS-6 for 1 1/4 oz shot loads but state that the Clays load is not recommended for plastic hulls with paper basewad. The HS-6 can be used with plastic or paper basewads.

If you are finding the shotcup/ball combo much over bore size which you are at 0.735" I think you will find that the shotcup petals shear and accuracy is poor. You might try cutting the petals off at the half ball height to form a "cup" or try a thinner shotcup.

I am afraid that is the best I have for now.

Longbow

PS: Looking back at Gunnerd's post, 16 grs. of Clays is in line with the Lee recipe of 16.6 grs. of Clays for plastic hull with plastic basewad.

[Bloodman14]

Straight "Clays". I haven't tried any other 'Clays' yet. I loaded a few with "Longshot" a few weeks ago; GOOD GOD!! Recoil aplenty! 5 rounds, and I was done. Gun is a Win. 1200 with a 22" cyl. bore.

[Bloodman14]

Longbow, for some odd reason "Clays" tends to burn the paper basewads of Federal shells; I don't use 'em. The burning of the basewad tends to increase the hull capacity after a few loads, getting dangerous after awhile.

[mini14]

Guys,

I want to thank you both for the helpful posts. It has been a huge help.

I loaded the round balls with 30 gr of HS-6, IMO this seems to be the lowest weight of any data I can find for 1 1/4 shot loads. I don't see how it could be unsafe.

I'm going to load another 10 with 16 grains of clays, after looking at quite a bit of shot data it seems like it would be ok.

the bpi hulls say "multi hull" and "made in Italy" on the bag

the headstamp is two 12s across from eachother and two stars across from eachother

[longbow]

According to the BPI site the Multi Hull is Cheddite and according to the BPI shotshell loading manual "... Cheddite's most standout feature is compatibility with almost any type of shotshell load recipe."

If loads are "light" like the Lee universal loads and you use a large capacity straight walled hull like the Multi Hull they should be fine. The Lee universal load for 1 1/4 oz. shot is 29.4 grs. HS-6 for all plastic hulls and 30.8 grs. HS-6 for hulls with paper basewad.

Now that I know these are Cheddite hulls, I do have some slug load data for them using HS-6 but not for 0.690" ball. All slugs are heavier at 1 1/4 oz to 1 3/8 oz.

I know BPI has advertised their Multi Hull so they should certainly be able to advise on exact shot and slug loads for them. I have e-mailed them in the past and gotten good responses. They even sent load data and advice a couple of times so I have been quite happy with their service.

In any case, this should get you started.

Gunnerd:

Well, you learn something every day! I did not know that but then I don't use much Clays and I haven't used any in Federal paper basewad hulls. I guess I won't either!

Thanks for the info.

Longbow