I know it not cast, but anybody shoot Hornady FTX bullets in the 30 WCF?

[mnzrxer]

Just wondering how they have performed for others as a result of my experience last week.

I decided I was going to use the Model 94 for deer this year but didn't have time to order a proper mould (I've tried a few now and all had boolit noses that fit so tightly in the bore the lever is hard to close) So I figured, if I am buying jacketed bullets, I would give the new 160gr FTX ones a try.

I settled on a load of 30.5gr of Win 748 powder with WLR primer. This gave fine accuracy and about 2025FPS velocity.

When checking my targets I did have some concerns about the fact that I was finding most of the jackets from the bullets on top of the dirt of my backstop after going through only a paper target and 5/8" plywood.

So, the last day of deer season here I got a chance at a nice buck within 35 yards. Should have been an easy shot, but when I pulled the trigger I saw a branch of about .45 caliber diameter fall and a few others jump around. The deer looked at me for a second and ran off unscathed. As I sat in my stand I could see the branch I shot off and started looking at it though my binoculars. I could see on the surrounding twigs evidence of shrapnel several inches away from the branch I hit.

Now, I was by no means shooting through heavy brush, just one small aspen's worth of a few branches. I was unlucky to have so perfectly hit the branch I did, but it sure looked like the FTX just disintegrated upon impact with the branch. This really raised the question in my mind as to the performance of this bullet on game. Based on my limited experience shooting wood in a couple of different forms I'm not sure I want to try to take a deer with this bullet. My thoughts are with a good shot in the open it will likely get the job done, but this bullet will not hold together for decent penetration and certainly will not exit.

I don't want to pass judgment based solely on my experience though and don't intend to give the FTX a bad rap, I'm just looking for more info and thoughts on this particular bullet design.

[C A Plater]

I would not be overly concerned just yet. Nearly any bullet striking a branch would at the very least be severely deflected and seeing as you could not recover the errant round, what the bullet actually did is a mystery. Also, plywood does not approximate what the results would be on game.

[DaveD]

I shot a smallish buck mulie a few weeks ago with my 338ME. I was very surprised by the result! I had him broadside at about 60 yards and hit him square in the right scapula. This was factory loads not reloads. A piece of the bullet core penetrated between two ribs and into his right lung. The only hole I found in his chest cavity was about 22 caliber. The jacket and core totally separated and the jacket was found in the neck below his wind pipe. I have yet to weigh it but plan to.

The scapula looked like a grenade went of in it. Bone fragments everywhere through his shoulder - there was no scapula left. The deer dropped in his tracks! Had I hit a bit further back, the results would have been different I would expect. I took some autopsy pictures and will post asap. I plan to get a pick of the bullet as well.

Yes, the buck is in the freezer but I'm not confident enough in it to use it on elk. I know many have with acceptable results but this is my opinion. Hopefully Hornady will soon have a load for the 338 like the new one for the 308ME in 2011 with the Flex Tip in the GMX bullet. That should alleviate this apparent problem.

DaveD

[NickSS]

I have not tried these bullets but from what I have read in this thread it sounds like the bullet core is not bonded very well to the jacket if at all and the jacket is too thin. The performance sounds like a varmint bullet not a big game one. Personally I like the old tried and true type bullets and shun the host of new supper pills until they have a clear record of success. An old remington core lock 170 gr might have gotten through the hit on the branch and I am sure it would have pennetrated the shoulder of the animal and made a clean hole through the critter as well.

[mnzrxer]

I have not tried these bullets but from what I have read in this thread it sounds like the bullet core is not bonded very well to the jacket if at all and the jacket is too thin. The performance sounds like a varmint bullet not a big game one.

This is exactly what I am thinking about these bullets. The jacket seems quite thin and very easily separated from the core. There may be some mechanical locking of the core to jacket but if the jacket peels back much past the ogive the core is no longer locked in. Add the plastic tip, which is marketed as initiating expansion in other product lines, and it might all result in a "varmint" bullet for big game.

I'll likely try to go after some coyotes or something to try to do more testing with these bullets, but the ability to test on deer is over for this year.

[jh45gun]

Does not take much for a bullet to deflect even going through tall grass will do it. Kinda funny with the old timers talking about brush busters as now we know all bullets will deflect. Some times ya get lucky and the deflection will still hit and give a good hit if the animal is close enough other times its a miss. I have seen the same thing with arrows too. The thing is when you look at an animal your focused on the animal not the junk in front of it. Unless it is a tree your not going to notice all the twigs and brush.

[mnzrxer]

The thing is when you look at an animal your focused on the animal not the junk in front of it. Unless it is a tree your not going to notice all the twigs and brush.

Very true. I didn't see any of the obstructions before pulling the trigger. Unfortunately, given where I hunt, there will rarely be a shot without the chance of some amount of brush or twigs.

[NickSS]

Bullet deflection can and does occure but it has been my experience that a large heavy slug going at moderate velocity deflects less than high speed light slugs. I once shot a running white tail deer that the bullet went through a 4 inch in diameter tree about half way between me and the deer. I was shooting a 45-70 loaded with 400 gr cast bullet at about 1400 fps. The animal was running across my front at 60 paces of so. I swung out in front of him and touched a round off. The deer kept moving and I had time to eject the empty and drop another into my Ruger #3 carbine and it fell over dead. It went about another 25 yards after I hit it. I noticed the tree spray wood chips as I broke the shot so went to the tree and looked it over the bullet hit about 1 inch frome the edge and penetrated completely and still hit the buck and went completely through him as well. I have hit other branches and iterveaning stuff at least three other times and each time the animal went down but then I tend to shoot heavy slower moving bullets.

[Dan Cash]

I quit with Hornady bullets on anything larger than prairie dogs as they are too fragile and do not perform for me. This is with .30-40 and .30-06. Hornaday is not the only one though as this year I used a .30-40 with another brand of jacketed bullet that has given good results in the past. I collected the buck but sure had to shoot him a bunch to anchor him. Autopsy suggested less than satisfactory performance. Next year it will be a 180-200 grain cast in that old 95.

[DaveD]

I made this post last night on the Marlin Owners board regarding my experience with the 338 Leverevolution ammo.

Rather than repost it here is the link:

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/i...c,80548.0.html

[Larry Gibson]

I've tested the .30 cal FTX out of my 24" barreled M94AE and get 40+ fps more than advertised velocity with the factory loads. I've worked up a good load but have not used it on anything yet. I am awaiting the release in January of the powder used in the factory loads. A friend back in the midwest has used the factory load out of his 24" barreled Marlin (velocity should be 2400+ fps) and said he got excellent performance out of the bullet on a nice WT buck and a doe. He recovered one bullet saying expansion and weight retention were excellent and about what he expected with a C&C bullet. I doubt Hornady would release a product that had not been thoroughly tested. I have read many of the test results (yes I do take the reports in the shooting rags with a grain of salt) and all have been favorable. I look forward to trying the FTX .30 cal bullets on game out of my M94AE but will continue to use the old tried and true 311041HP out of my 30-30 M94 Carbine.

I have been using Hornady InterLoks in numerous standard cartridges (velocity of 2900 fps or less) for many years with complete success and no "failures". In all of my standard cartridge rifles + my M70 .375 H&H if I am hunting deer, elk or bear these days with j bullets they invariably are Hornady InterLoks. Over the years I also have used Winchester, Remington, Speer, and sierra C&C bullets to kill such animals, all without any of the reported "failures" that we are led to believe will happen with such bullets. I've nothing against the modern "bonded" premium type bullets but think they are better suited to the faster magnum cartridges of 3000+ fps. I do not believe the much more expensive premium bullets are needed at all for the standard cartridges. Seems like human nature that to "justify" something new we must criticise and belittle the old. The fact that the old C&C bullets worked fine and are still working fine seems to be ignored. Everyone can make their own choice on what they want to use for a bullet. I just don't buy that my '06 or any of my standard cartridges won't kill deer, elk or bear effectively with C&C bullets anymore. Apparently a lot do believe that as they are buying the "premium" bullets and continue to criticise the "failures" of the old C&C bullets to justify their new and more expensive bullets. So please don't try to convince me I will have "bullet failure" if I use any of the old C&C bullets in my standard cartridges. To that I would say "horse puckey"!

Larry Gibson

[mnzrxer]

DaveD, thanks for the link. Very interesting report.

Larry G, I agree that Hornady likely would not release a thoroughly tested product, however I don't think the true intent of these FTX bullets is being readily publicized. As mentioned in the link DaveD posted the bullets are likely designed to work best at ranges longer than normal for a lever gun where the velocities have dropped a fair bit and do not impact the critter with as much energy. I have nothing against a good C&C bullet, I shoot Sierra GameKings in my 308 (which, by the way, plowed through the offside shoulder of my deer last year and, even though it broke up, all of it made it though the bone).

I started this thread just looking for info and other's experience. As I stated before, I am not looking to slam the FTX based only on my limited experience. I do, however, want to have the best chance of a good kill when the opportunity arises. I will be picking up a 311041 mold as that boolit should cure the issue of not being able to chamber a cast boolit loading easily. Then I can hunt with this carbine the way I really wanted to in the first place.

[Smoke-um if you got-um]

My son started using them when first introduced. He is a hunter as compared to shooter and is probably still using the same box he sighted in with. He used several to sight in his 336 Marlin and got fine accuracy. Since then he has taken 5 deer/5 shots. All shots have been less than 100 yds with the closest at 30 yds. All bullets have passed thru including a quartering shot at approx 60 yds. One dropped at the shot and the other 4 went less than 25yds before going down. Exit wound has been the size of a 50 cent piece. He tells me that they work well but not any better than the 170 Rem. round nose he has used since he was a teenager. He did say they were more accurate in his rifle than the Remington 170 RN and will continue use them just in case he would ever get that 200 yd shot Hornady claims is feasible.

[Smoke-um if you got-um]

Son called me last night. 6 deer/ 6 shots as of yesterday. Quartering shot at 115yds front to rear. Complete pass thru and dropped at the shot. Fine performance per him. Not much more you can ask for from a deer rifle regardless of type/brand of bullet you happen to prefer.