To say I am discouraged is an understatement

[docone31]

It is gonna take heat!
You will need to get the mold hot, as well as the pour. Crank up the heat!
You cannot possibly get lead fumes with the equipment you have, so don't worry there. With the wheel weight alloy, it should fill the corners real well.

[jameslovesjammie]

That's the thing, it isn't new, I bought it used. Not very used, previous owner said he used it once. Should be cooled off, I guess I can trythe lighter fluid thing - no toothbrush, washcloth work for now?

I've had a few new Lee moulds and group buy moulds that needed very little cleaning to get casting, and I've had ones that seemed like they were caked in cutting fluid. Even after cleaning the mould with brake cleaner and washing it in Dawn while scrubbing it with a toothbrush, it still takes a couple of sessions before I get good boolits.

I just got the 358-158-RF 6 cavity in the mail. The cavities are full of metal shavings and fluid. I am confident it will take lots of cleaning to get good boolits.

FWIW, some of my moulds like to be smoked, some fill well without. If I spent the time to Leement them, I am confident none of them would need it.

[docone31]

Take the mold, put it in mineral spirits for a couple of days, then cast!
No need for smoking.
That is the best way I have found to get good castings.
Once I did that, all my molds performed like an expert was using them!
I did the dish soap, brake fluid, toothbrush technique, what ever that is. Nothing. Wrinkles, creases, bad fillout.
Mineral spirits, then heat.

[armoredman]

I'll bite - what do the mineral spirits do?

[Doby45]

Put that thing on top of your pot, it will dry. All I have ever done with my molds is boil a pot of water. Once it is boiling put a drop or two of dish detergent in it. The mold/molds have been in the pot since I put it on the stove, so they are hot too by now. Then I pull th emold out and scrub it with an old teethbrush and then dunk it back in the boiling hot pot of water. Then scrub it again and set it on the counter. The mold is so hot that it is dry within a minute. Then I just start using it. I also use a hotplate that my molds sit on as the Lee pot is coming up to temp and by the time lead is flowing from the pot, I am casting keepers from the first cast. 2cav, 3cav, 6cav whatever they all do the same. Brass, aluminum, steel they all do the same.

EDIT: For the record I have never put a match anywhere near any of my molds. Never needed to. Never used minerals spirits, gasoline, rubbing alcohol, denatured alcohol, mouth wash or anything else. Just boiling hot water and soap.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Is this a NOE mould? did it get the directions passed along with it?

I have one that I was in a hurry with . . . did similar as yours . .. brake cleaner is your friend!

[cbrick]

It is gonna take heat!
You will need to get the mold hot, as well as the pour. Crank up the heat!

Yep, crank up the heat . . . especially if your goal is to oxidize the tin out because that's just what will happen. Yet another old wives tale that covers up one problem by creating another. Even if you manage to keep some tin in your melt the reason for having it there is to reduce the surface tension of the stream of alloy into your mold (and to a lesser degree the alloy on top of the pot). Tin looses it's ability to do this much past 750 degrees. The more tin looses it's ability to reduce surface tension and/or the less tin in your melt the more heat you'll need to keep the mold properly filling out.

Your molds should cast well filled out bullets with good alloy at about 100 degrees above liquidus temp with a properly pre-heated, clean mold. Adjust your casting pace to keep the mold at the temp correct.

Rick

[Doby45]

Correct. The MOLD needs to be hot, much more so than the lead. 750 on the lead and your good IF your mold is nice and hot.

[armoredman]

OK. BTW, this is an NOE mould, a very nice one, are there some special instructions for them as one poster suggested

[geargnasher]

Correct. The MOLD needs to be hot, much more so than the lead. 750 on the lead and your good IF your mold is nice and hot.

I almost misunderstood you! You mean it is more IMPORTANT that the mould be hot than the alloy. You'll never get the mould hotter than the lead. If you did the lead wouldn't solidify.

750 is WAY too hot. It's the MOULD temp that makes boolits fill out, NOT the ALLOY temp.

Gear

[Doby45]

LOL, tell me about it. I have had my mold so hot before that I could fill it and the sprue would not set and you could pour the lead back out of the mold. This was after the lead sat in the mold for about a minute. Needless to say it had to cool a bit.

[RayinNH]

Hot soapy water is all that is needed. I have used brake cleaner on occasion. Some of the fluids mentioned as well as the Zippo lighter will in themselves leave an oily residue...Ray

[geargnasher]

Alright, time to bust some myths and wive's tales, here are the facts, you should listen to CBRick as he's about the only one on this thread dispensing valid advice.

#1 Smoke does nothing good for mould cavities.
#2 Wax or Boolit lube is for boolits, not for moulds.....Bullplate sprue lube is for moulds.
#3 Casting with straight WW alloy is fine, and doesn't need to have the temp turned up beyond, as has been said, 100*F above full liquidus.
#4 Casting with one million degree alloy WILL NOT make good boolits from a COLD mould. You need to get your mould temperature up to at least 400*, 450 is better if your pot temp is 600-650 or so. You can only accomplish this on a big heat-sinking aluminum gang mould by preheating on a hot plate on it's highest setting for about ten minutes. I cannot overemphasize how important having a HOT HOT mould is when using aluminum. Run your alloy as cool as possible and cast as fast as possible to keep the mould temp up. Don't slow for a second once you get going. It only takes 15 seconds for the mould to lose casting temperature.

More important info: All moulds are practically immersed in cutting fluid to keep the machining heads and cherries cool, and this fluid is forced into the pores of the metal at many tons per square inch while the process is going on. Your new mould will likely have never been cleaned properly. This oil WILL ***** you boolits unless it is completely removed, and often it takes either soaking in mineral spirits, boiling for an extended time in soapy water, or repeated cleanings with brake cleaner and a tooth brush.

Lee's recommendation for smoking is purely to mask the effect of the leftover machining oil and the tendency for the edges of the aluminum cavities to have burrs which make it hard to tap the boolits out.

Gear

[462]

I have Ideal, Lee, Lyman, and RCBS moulds and have never smoked them. A clean, burr free, and properly aligned mould is all that is needed.

Though the mould is used, perhaps the previous owner never cleaned it and was so disappointed with the results that he sold it. Or, he oiled it after the last casting session. Either way, it needs a THOROUGH cleaning.

[geargnasher]

Hot soapy water is all that is needed. I have used brake cleaner on occasion. Some of the fluids mentioned as well as the Zippo lighter will in themselves leave an oily residue...Ray

I forgot to add that. Naptha is very oily, and carburetor cleaner is no good either as it contains a slight bit of oil for anti-corrosion and lubrication of the moving parts.

Gear

[geargnasher]

I copied and pasted this from Bret4207 on another recent thread, hope you don't mind, Bret!

"Originally Posted by sourceofuncertainty
Geargnasher, could you explain the smoke part a little? I'm not a newbie to casting but I'm not that experienced either. I found that with the 6-gang Lee pistol moulds, I couldn't get the boolits to easily drop free until I'd smoked the mould. Once I smoked my pistol moulds, most seem to drop the bullets much more easily.

What is the downside to smoking the moulds?

(Bret): First off, you get smaller boolits. That's usually a problem for most of us. Second, you're insulating the mould from much needed heat. Third, you're blocking your venting. Fourth, you're using a bandaid approach to getting the mould to work right. Clean it, lap it, deburr it, whatever, but fix the darn thing! (Bret).

I think he covered that pretty well.

Gear

[armoredman]

Oh well, I did use thehot soapy water after the lighter fluid.

[Doby45]

Not tap hot, boiling hot..

[geargnasher]

Yep, crank up the heat . . . especially if your goal is to oxidize the tin out because that's just what will happen. Yet another old wives tale that covers up one problem by creating another. Even if you manage to keep some tin in your melt the reason for having it there is to reduce the surface tension of the stream of alloy into your mold (and to a lesser degree the alloy on top of the pot). Tin looses it's ability to do this much past 750 degrees. The more tin looses it's ability to reduce surface tension and/or the less tin in your melt the more heat you'll need to keep the mold properly filling out.

Your molds should cast well filled out bullets with good alloy at about 100 degrees above liquidus temp with a properly pre-heated, clean mold. Adjust your casting pace to keep the mold at the temp correct.

Rick[/COLOR]

This is such correct and important advice that it should be made into a locked sticky.

Anyone who owns the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook should have already read and understood this.

Those who don't, PLEASE re-read and understand what Rick was pointing out. Tin keeps lead moving by creating an oxide shield, and if you think that a hot pot is going to fix your cold mould problems you are creating more by turning up that dial.

I routinely cast with aluminum moulds where the mould runs about 420* (checked with an infrared thermometer) and the alloy (WW +2% tin) runs between 600 and 650. The pour rate for a two-banger is four a minute, sprue cooling time is six seconds. For six-bangers from Lee, that's three pours a minute, cut the sprue the instant it comes out from under the pot (aluminum six-banger sprue plates lose heat faster than even the thin steel Lee two-banger ones).

Gear

[cbrick]

750 is WAY too hot. It's the MOULD temp that makes boolits fill out, NOT the ALLOY temp.

Gear

Yep, correct, right on, couldn't have said it better myself.

I don't know if 750 degrees is WAY too hot but it is too hot and serves only to create more oxidation.

As long as your alloy is about 100 degrees above liquidus temp AND your mold is PROPERLY pre-heated your good to go.

PROPERLY pre-heat the mold and cast with 700-725 degree alloy, adjust the casting pace to keep the mold at it's best casting temp. I do this with all of my molds, iron, aluminum, brass, 2,3,4,6 and 8 cavity and have no problems with fill-out.

The ONLY molds I cast with over 700 degree pot temp is HP molds where I use 725 to help keep the spud temp up and not get the mold temp too high by casting too fast.

Crank up the heat is simply another of the old wives tales that relentlessly keep getting passed on and on. Keep passing it on or maybe learn a new way.

Rick