45 Auto Hunting Bullet

[waksupi]

All these scary stories have me looking at 44 magnums. I am liking the Taurus ultralite with 4" barrel. Weighs in at 28 oz. Almost half the weight of my old Ruger Super Redhawk. Problem with the full size handguns is that unless you are handgun hunting, they are just a parasite on you. Weighing in at almost 4 pounds. A pound and three quarters sounds better!

But until then, its the 45 acp to back up my 338 win mag or 45-70 or bow.

Friend had one of those Taurus. It locked up on him in about 20 rounds. He returned it. Nice thing about Taurus, they come pre-broke from the factory, to save you time.

[451whitworth]

230 gr LBT LFN. I bought a 4 cavity mould.

that's exactly what i have and what i would use.

[dk17hmr]

I have a 454424 HP mold, boolits weigh in at 245grs, made of softer alloy and the cavity filled with wax it is a expanding son of a gun, not what I would use on bear but for deer or elk at bow range I wouldnt think twice about it, they come out of my 1911 at around 850fps.

I have also shot the LEE 255gr RNFP out of my 1911, chronoed at 860FPS, made them hard and used them for back up while bow hunting bear, never shot one though.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...highlight=1911

[RobS]

For a heavy that Lee 255 RF would work well regarding feeding and function as it is just the Lee 200 RF with and extra drive band and lube groove. Nice big meplat and some good weight behind it moving at 860 fps is a good chunk of lead out of a 45 ACP.

Not a bad idea, not bad at all.

[miestro_jerry]

When I go hunting for larger animals, like elk. I carry a S&W L frame with 357 Mag bullets or a Ruger Redhawk in 44 Mag.

I carry a 45 ACP in my fields with me for ground hogs and coyotes. I like my 45 ACPs, but the 45 ACP is meant for military and police action that humans are the main targets. I know a couple of LEOs that have used the 45 ACP to take down attacking dogs.

Over the years I have carried mostly 1911s in 45 ACP, with one exception one 1911 in 38 Super. I think the 9mm over pentrates in enough cases that I won't carry it on a regular basis. But again these calibers are for a purpose other than game hunting, but I must say that I really like my Browning Hi Power.

I look at backup hunting pistols in this fashion, if a 45 ACP will comfortably take down a 250 pound man, then what will it take to bring down a 1,000 pound bull Elk? Especially one that is upset with you.

Jerry

[Edubya]

And once you experience the recoil on a 28oz .44mag you'll hope that you'll never have to make two shots to take a charging mad animal down. Anytime that your talking about 250 gr at 1200+ FPS, you've got to realize that the extra 10-20 oz. is a sweetheart to lug around. I have a 4" 629 and it's the lightest that I would want to depend on to put two or more boolits into a charging bear.

EW

[fredj338]

I appreciate all the comments. I agree about the 45 being marginal. Thats why I have a 10mm on order. I had a 454 Casull and found it too heavy to pack all the time. That was a good bear gun, but if you dont have it on you...it doesn't do any good. Actually thinking about a snub nosed 44 mag alaskan.

FYI, the 10mm is only very slightly "better" than a hot loaded 45acp. If you want sure bear medicine in a handgun, get a 4" 44mag or 45colt. Light wt, easy to shoot w/ loads that far exceed the 10mm. A 300grLFP @ 1200fps will penetrate all day & make a much larger hole.

[Gohon]

Nice thing about Taurus, they come pre-broke from the factory, to save you time.

Horse feathers..........my Taurus PT 1911 has a few thousand rounds through it and has never had a failure yet. Some of my loads are well into the +P range. Ditto for several friends that shoot a Taurus.

[miestro_jerry]

I am not sure about the Taurus pistols, don't own one at the moment. As to the light weight 44 Mag, I own a S&W 340 PD. It is a 357 Magnum that weighs 12 ounces. Once you have fired it, you will think about it before pulling the trigger a second time, even with 38 Spl +P

Jerry

[JTknives]

FYI, the 10mm is only very slightly "better" than a hot loaded 45acp. If you want sure bear medicine in a handgun, get a 4" 44mag or 45colt. Light wt, easy to shoot w/ loads that far exceed the 10mm. A 300grLFP @ 1200fps will penetrate all day & make a much larger hole.

i would have to disagree with this statement strongly, actually quite strongly. yes the 10mm does not reach 44mag power levels but i would like to see a 45acp touch 10mm in power and penetration. you say that the 10mm is only slightly better then a hot 45acp, but wait that's not fair. lets compare hot to hot if we are going to compare these 2 calibers. yes the 45 acp is larger in diameter then the 10mm but it acts to it's disadvantage. OK lets take 200gr-210gr cast with a large Meplat. the 45acp is moving slow which with a big boolit is not to bad but in order to gain any advantage of using a wide flat nose you need to be between 1200-1600 fps. if you cant push it that fast then you are just making a hole the size of the boolit. now once you can get it moving over 1200 fps then something starts to happen. you start to see permanent wound channels that happen to be much larger then the actual boolit diameter. i have seen numbers that relate to permanent channels being any where from 2-5 times the actual boolit size. now if you look at factory loaded 10mm rounds you will have slow velocity compared to what it was meant to do. but remember one thing that is a driving force behind penetration is sectional density. which is the weight of the boolit compared to its diameter. here is the formula
(weight in grains / 7000 grains-per-pound) / ( diameter2)
it is proven that bullets with higher Sectional Density penetrate better then lower sectional density. there is more mass behind a smaller surface area. now combine this with the velocity difference and it adds up to a huge difference between the two. would it make a difference on a person , probably not. but it was enough to drive the FBI to want to use the 10mm over the 45acp because of penetration problems. thy even stated that it was the best round but because of recoil thy dropped the powder charge and ended up with the 40sw which is a fail in my eyes. but its a good round. ok back to what i was talking about. even if both the 10mm and 45acp fired the same boolit style and same weight at the same speed the 10mm would have better penetration because of the smaller surface area on the nose. yes it would be a smaller hole but you got the penetration. now lets push the 10mm to what it can do. i can personalty push a 205gr WFN cast boolit over 1400fps out of my glock with an aftermarket barrel and careful work up. that is over 900ft/lbs of energy. but that's not all, this wide flat nose is flying in the butter zone for WFN boolits and will make a big hole with massive penetration. it works so well that it actually is a legal hunting round here in utah for elk and moose. OK so your pushing a 200gr 45acp at what 900fps and the 10mm can push the same boolit at 1400ps. I will admit i am not a 45acp reloading expert so i don't know what people have hot loaded the 45acp to so if you got some numbers great. the 45acp will make a 45cal hole and lack penetration because of the lack of velocity and Sectional Density. where the 10mm will make a hole 2-5 times the diameter of the boolit and have amazing penetration. its the same reason the 9mm has so much penetration. it has the velocity and high Sectional Density. sorry about the rant but i had a 45acp and quickly sold it after i did my homework. I'm not saying that the 45acp is a bad round at all. it works great on people and has what i consider low recoil because of the low pressures in the case. but once i realized that there is a lot factors then the size of the boolit. ill tell you what, in the woods i would rather take my 10mm with 15-16 rounds then a 44 mag 5-6. my gun is comped and has very little muzzle rise and at close range i could empty a mag into something very quickly. o and that 44mag load you said would be a great bear load, 300gr at 1200fps. its the same as my 1450fps 205gr 10mm loads energy wise. the 44mag does have a higher sectional density. i just thought i would point that out.

[Slogg76]

I have some limited experience taking game with a 45 ACP. I have taken white tail deer and smaller. In my experience I would go as heavy as possible. I second the Lee 255 RF if it will feed well. You can safely get 250-260 grain bullets in the 850 fps range and that is touching on original 45 Colt ballistics. I took deer with cheap Remington 230 grain HP's. One was a pass through on a broadside shot and the other (another broadside shot) broke through the opposite rib cage, almost broke through the skin on the opposite side, and bounced around the body cavity some. Expansion was great with both shots, and the deer didn't go anywhere. I have some friends that swear by the Hornady 200 grain XTP at +p velocities, but I have no first hand experience. I have shot small game with 180-185 cast and jacketed hollow points and I was not impressed! I had 45 bullets in that weight class hang up in opossums! I currently have my XD-45 with me loaded with Lee 230 grain TL TC's at nearly 900 fps when I may have to share the woods with bears. They drop from my mold more like 235 grains with wheel weights and tin and shoot very well. I only run into the occasional black bear and I figure if I bounce a mag full of 230+ grain 45 slugs off a bear's nose it MAY decide I'm not worth messing with. It is certainly better than nothing, however, even small black bears can soak up a whole lotta lead before they know they're dead.

[exile]

I have no experience shooting game animals, but I do have a S & W .44 Mountain Gun. It weighs 39 ounces (same as a 1911, I think) and if recoil is an issue, maybe a .44 Special would suffice for your purposes.

I have nothing against a 1911, I am in the market for one myself, but it seems like this would be a better choice for what you want to accomplish.

exile

[mroliver77]

If I was set on my 1911 or had to I would go with the Lee 255rf or the Lyman 452423swc that drops at 240 is from my mold. If one is knowingly carrying for backup on more dangerous game the 1911 can be used with a heavier spring and slow for the round powders and squeeze a bit more performance out of it. Personally I would carry a Black Hawk in .44 or .45 with a 5"ish barrel. They dont carry quite as comfortable as a 1911 but are not bad. Main thing is to be very proficient with it!!

Jay

[BD]

I designed the 230 grain BDacp specifically because I'd had such piss poor luck killing things with the H&G #68 and the H&G #130 designs, no matter how fast I drove them. Those light, fast SWC designs drill a nice clean hole clear through most every time, but they just don't seem to make enough of an impression on the animal being shot to stop the action. Even 'coons would keep on coming.

It's not necessarily intuitive, but in my experience a fair dose of "thump" from a big flat meplat will stop a deer or hog long enough to make a good second hit, and it will often roll a 'coon or dog off it's feet drt. All that said, if I know in advance I'm going out to play with bears I'll take the .44 mag.

BD

[Ajax]

if i was set on a 1911 i would carry it in a holster and bring a rifle. just my 2 cents

[gray wolf]

45 ACP for a Grizzly ?
Perhaps if he is down and you can walk up to him and do a shot to the brain.
If you plan on shooting a charging Grizzly with a 45 acp you are just dreaming
and will be bear food.

[Char-Gar]

I have never shot or shot at a bear. That said, good old 452423 a 240 grain Keith bullet going 850 fps out of a 1911 will kill deer and mountain lion grave yard dead, right now and right there. It takes a little throating on some barrel for it to feed 100%, but once done, it never jams. Here is my brush pistol and a mag of loads..452423/4.8./Bullseye. I have wagged similar pistols with this load all over Texas and New Mexico for 50 year and have never found the gun or load wanting.

[SharpsShooter]

If ya gotta have the ACP, buy yourself a Ruger Blackhawk Convertible 45 Colt / 45 ACP. with a 5.5" barrel. Put the ACP cylinder in the safe and forget you have it. A 260gr Keith SWC and 19gr of 2400 will git-er-done. I carry a 1911 every day and would be glad to have it if the need arose to stop a bear. That said, it would not be my first choice. I personally saw a 150ish pound black bear take six 357 mag 158gr JHP's to the chest at"tag you're it distance" and I was becoming concerned it was not gonna die without reinforcements.


Chargars load would be my minimum if I had just the 1911 to use.

SS

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Somehow grizzlies snuck into the thread . . . he is talking black bears, and yes they have a slow heart rate so it takes a while to leak out all the blood . . .

I have the MiHec's clone of the HG68 for my .45.

Here is a gun that was designed for bears . . . even the big ones that live in AK! 44 mag


A great gun, not light, but they make heavier guns . . . I know it is a "just in case" gun, but I'd rather carry it and not need it, than turn into dinner for bear and/or the worms . . . I got it for two legged bears!

[Shooter6br]

After testing 45 ACP HP cast and Hornady bullets with two water filled jugs back to back as targets i find that penetration isnt all that great .Fine for self defence for 2 legged varmints but for big game? Solids in a 41 mag or larger Not a scientific test but seems to give you an idea. just my 2 cents