Hot .30-30 loads

[Gray Fox]

I know this is a cast boolit forum, but I know some of you folks have done a lot of experimenting, so here goes. I've got two nearly new .30-30s, one Win 94 and one Marlin 336, and a couple hundred pieces of new brass. What I'd like to do is come up with a load approximating what Hornady is claiming to get from their new plastic tip rounds. I've looked at the Hornady site and found their load data for the 160 grain bullet, but it tops out at 2,000 fps. I'd like to think something better is possible. I'd like to load a 150 grain spitzer to be used in a "one in the chamber and one in the magazine" hunting mode. The new Hornady bullet is a boat tail, so I suppose a 150 grain spitzer boat tail would be the way to go to try to make this work. Any suggestions? Thanks for tolerating my blasphemous thoughts.

[MT Gianni]

I believe they are using a non canister powder. I would try another cartridge if I needed that speed.

[izzyjoe]

you might want to check but that hornady le is movin' round about 2400 fs. and you cant get ner that close. i dont know what powder they use,but it makes some speed. all i can say is with the 30-30 faster don't matter that much, but a good 170gr. whatever the boolit movin @2000 seem to make meat fer me. lol.

[MtGun44]

You will gain little or nothing in trajectory or killing power at the risk of damaging the
rifle or yourself. Gianni is right - if you need more velocity, you need a different caliber.

I will guarantee you that a deer will not notice any difference if you hit it at 2000 or 2200 fps.
Either will kill decisively if the bullet is placed properly. The trajectory difference will be
less than 1/2" at 100 yds, nobody can detect that difference and gain any real world
benefit from such a small incriment in velocity. Most of the potential trajectory gain
is at 250 yds and comes primarily from the better ballistic coefficient of a pointed bullet
rather than large increases in velocity.

Hornady has stated that conventional powders cannot reach their velocities with safe
pressures. They have developed a new powder technology, what you are attempting
is not safe. You need a .300 Savage or .308 Winchester if you just must have the
higher velocity.

Bill

[KYCaster]

A guy who worked for a friend of mine did the same thing years ago...he said the factory FP 30-30 loads were too wimpy.

I asked him how that worked out for him. He said it worked great, but he had to find some decent brass 'cause the garbage that Win and Rem made would seperate on the second firing.

I asked him where he found a Win '94 chambered in 308. He looked at me kinka funny for a couple of seconds and said, "It aint a 308, it's a 30-30." I don't think he got it....haven't seen him in years.

Jerry

[Bullshop]

How about reaming to 30/30 AI? Ackley said the AI version eliminated much of the bolt thrust so should do well to eliminate stretching with hot loads.
I think I remember reading that he removed the breach bolt from a Win 94 and fired a round in the AI chamber and it held. That would sure be proof of eliminating back thrust.
BIC/BS

[357maximum]

You could just buy a 30/06

[Multigunner]

How about reaming to 30/30 AI? Ackley said the AI version eliminated much of the bolt thrust so should do well to eliminate stretching with hot loads.
I think I remember reading that he removed the breach bolt from a Win 94 and fired a round in the AI chamber and it held. That would sure be proof of eliminating back thrust.
BIC/BS

I've seen this quoted in a great many variations.
Closest to the original claim being a .32 Winchester Special with the locking slides left out, only the lever itself acting to hold the bolt closed.
Near as I can tell all he proved was that the primer would blow out before the case stretched, not suprizing.

The .307 cartridge was meant to give .308 ballistics from a lever action, it hasn't shown much promise from what I hear. Loads still have to remain within the limitations of the action. The extra capacity might allow more velocity, at least from a longer barrel.

From what I've read on handloading for the .358, 375, and .307, once case diameter becomes only a hair larger than the slim .30-30 cases bolt thrust increases and the brass is put at some sort of a mechanical disadvantage.
To prevent stretching you'd have to use a stronger brass, but once you did so the case would begin impacting the breechface full force rather than cushioning the blow by gripping the chamber wall.

Protusion of the Primer will slightly cushion the impact, but channels that pressure to the small area around the firing pin opening. Its common to find older rifles with the breechface caved in around the firing pin hole.

[Lead Fred]

Ive loaded the FTX 160gr with Ball-C Lot 2, @2280ish. I used them in both the Winnie 94 and Marlin, and wasnt happy with either groupings .

Im now loading up a batch with reloader 7 and going to push them out about 2k-2100fps and see if that stabilizes them.

[Tony65x55]

The way I see it you have two issues. Not only can you not safely achieve those velocities with conventional powders, you also have to find a 150 gr spitzer that a) will expand at those velocities and b) is short enough to work through the '94 action.

I tried a similar experiment many years ago and found what I was looking for in the 130 gr Hornady Single Shot Pistol bullet. With 130 gr I could attain a substantial increase in velocity, somewhat over 2500fps, and the pistol bullet would expand decently.

It was very accurate and although I got it to work in the '94, it never really fed worth a damn. You had to fiddle the second cartridge in. But it did work. After playing around with it for a season I decided it didn't have much utility in the areas I hunt and I went back to my cast boolits. It would be exceptional in the Rem 788 .30-30.

[7of7]

I use 130 grain bullets in mine, I have loaded 150 grain SP in however, the max velocity would be 2300. going to the other end at 110 grain pistol HP, ended up around 2600 fps, and functioned well. Of course, it was seated so that the OAL would be correct....

[Baron von Trollwhack]

There are a few things to consider IMHO.

First, ammo companies and their flacks universally hype velocity. Take that with a grain of salt.

Then, non cannister powder always comes up. What is it? Magic? No It's stuff like Data 68, AA 2230-c, etc. One of the best was AA 2200. There is a lot of powder available now and most 30-30 cases have room for more of a different type than what is loaded. A Full case of something a leetle slower is probably where to go.

Recent throating has been shorter, reducing useful OAL, like the Swiss rifles. Older Marlins And Winnies accept the same bullets loaded longer. Sometimes its 2 grains worth more depending on your particular mechanism.

Some folks ought to re-read Ackley for sure.

A great many chambers are really just not well done. That's a place to start when seeking to shoot faster. Some factory chambers make you want to scream they are so poor. How about the very short headspace new brass, like a .303 in a wornout combat chamber ?

Quite a few are using Barnes 130s in 308 for deer with good results. What if you flatted the nose to 30-30 standards and then loaded them to max? What if you swaged 3/4 jackets and filled them with a hard alloy at 110 grains total? I filed Hornady red tips off to use in a 218 lever with great results. What about ballistic tops flatted wirh a dab of gummy on the nose?

Just sometning dooable as a start. BvT

[GabbyM]

Take a look at the Hodgdon data. BL-C2 will get you above 2,300fps. They list 2,358fps with the Sierra bullet but please do reduce that charge 10% to start and do not assume you can use a different bullet with the same max charge. Lyman reloading manual shows the same powder under a Hornady 150 gr RN at .6 gr less powder weight and only 2292 fps plus running 3,000CUP higher listed pressure. Just to give you an idea of variables. Any pointed bullet will have more weight in the bullet body consuming more case capacity than a heavy nosed flat point of the same weight. So right their you're down in muzzle velocity. This explains the anemic velocity Hornady list for their tipped bullet in reloading data.

If you wait a year you'll see data for the new magic powders and if you're lucky stores may even have it on shelves. Alliant already list their Power Pro series powders in their data books but I've never seen it for sale. You can bet if you go to the risk and expense of wildcatting some cobbled up load the new powder will hit the shelves then you're high risk poor feeding case eating load will be obsolete. While you're waiting for the new magic powder just get some BL-C2 and a box of those Sierra bullets and have fun. Better yet get some boolits. Re size your fire formed brass just enough to chamber easy then you'll have a tad more capacity for your supper hot loads.

You're not gong to have much luck stuffing a spire point in a tube magazine as it will blunt the bullet point. Nosler BT may hold up and they are only 60 cents each.

In the end you may be happier buying one of the 300 dollar Marlin or Savage bolt guns in 7mm-08 and selling your 30-30.

[felix]

You can max out 30-30 loads with 748. That powder would be the only canister grade to do so. BLCs, 335s vary too much for production runs using different lots. I am not entirely certain, but various non-speced runs of 748 are BLCs/335s. ... felix

[jameslovesjammie]

If I remember right, the powder they are using the the same powder they are using in the .308 and .338 Marlin Express. It isn't a normal powder, but a blend of two different powders. Same as what is being used in the new Hornady Superformance ammo.

[atr]

my dad had an expression,,,"you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear"...
a 30-30 is just that....a 30-30.....its not a high velocity cartridge,,,especially with cast boolits.....you want a good deer/ hunting load?....just stick with 170 boolit and about 1800 fps,,,it will do the trick every time

[Slow Elk 45/70]

If you Must Have that kind of velocity from your 30/30.......I would use J bullets and forget cast....Just my humble opinion

[corvette8n]

I used to think that I needed the fastest I could get out of my 30-30 when I first got into guns and reloading. After reading about ballistics and shooting and seeing what hits targets or kills animals you'll find out that what is in most reloading manuals works. The most important factor with cast(or any bullet for that matter) is ta da "bullet placement". Whether its the target or game it where you put it that counts. I did have a buddy tell me once he shot a cow in Nam with a bazoka, his "co" made him pay the farmer for the cow, wasn't anthing left of the cow.

[muleequestrian]

I used to think that I needed the fastest I could get out of my 30-30 when I first got into guns and reloading.

I have to agree on this one. I learned that the fastest speed ain't always the most accurate either. I still shoot my .30-30 a lot, but bought a '95 Winny in .30-06 for the speed factor.

[mroliver77]

Search out some Paco Kelly articles on 30-30. Better yet, buy his book on leverguns. I like his outlook. He does not load "hot" loads. Only loads to the guns potential. There are times I want every bit of power and "flat" trajectory I can SAFELY wring out of a certain rifle.
Jay