.50 caliber velocity ?

[buckweet]

hi guy's i know this question , is probly a no-answer question, till we know what load and powder this barrl likes.

i've a .50 caliber GM barrel on its way here, with 1:72 twist, it's 42 inches long,


anyone have one of these ? what velocity do you thinks i can expect from this barrel ?

i thinks , it should hit 1400fps ?

be good for elk ?

mr. grizz ? moose ?

with PRB's

tim

[BruceB]

buckweet, amigo;

In our custom .50 flintlock, 34" barrel and 1:66 twist, 100 grains of FFg chronographs at 1990 fps.
This is well above your 1400 fps figure. That 1:72" twist restricts your rifle to round-ball loads, as I suspect you're well aware.

With the .490" ball weighing-in at about 180 grains (I think), that's a full .30-30 equivalent load at close range.

Any elk that collects one of these in a vital zone inside 100 yards will be literally meat on the table. I'd restrict it to broadside shots only, though, and try to avoid the heavier bones.

[Boz330]

It ought to do 1400 pretty easy. I would stick to whitetails with a 50 RB gun. It will kill what you listed if they are close enough, but that RB bleeds energy pretty rapidly past 50yd. The 62 or even a 58 carries a lot more energy at 100yds than the 50. You have to remember that an elk and moose are 5 to 10 times the weight of a whitetail. As far as Grizz I would sure want someone as a back up with a really big HP rifle. While he might die from a 50 cal hit he will have eaten you and eliminated you from his system by that time.

Bob

[Potsy]

My .50 RB gun hits 1800 with 90grn FFG. 1700 with 85grn. FFG.
Works fine for deer. Death on Groundhogs. Will hull squirells in half.
Can't comment on Elk, Moose, or Griz, but I'd start thinkin' pretty hard about .54's with elk and .62's (and up) for Griz. Though I'm sure a .50 ball has probably killed several of each.

[357maximum]

My .50 H&A style underhammer does 1873fps with a patched roundball over 95 grains of wano3f ........28 inch G.M 1/72 twist barrel....PRB over a 1/8 X 9/16 lubed felt "gascheck" .

The same load stack does close to 2k with 120grains of wano 2f...but is a little lively and less accurate in that light frame H&A. I would not be afraid to punch an elk/moose size critter with that load inside 100 yards...grizzlies.....now that there I would have to ponder a bit...done pondering...I want a 58 or 62 for something that is willing/able to kill me back.

[dualsport]

Grizz? You're kidding, right?. I hunted a few times with a guy that built beautiful muzzleloaders from scratch. He insisted on pig hunting with a .36 or something like that. It ended up a bad deal. Remember the old saying, "Use enough gun". With a round ball I wouldn't consider anything less than a .54 for elk, more is better. A lot depends on range and shot placement. No good reason not to try a conical in that GM barrel. Might be good enough accuracy for hunting, you never know 'til you try.

[Blammer]

my 50 cal Lyman Plains rifle 80gr FFG and a RB I get 1660 fps, 24" brl I think

[buckweet]

thanks guys, i've also gotten a .62 barrel on order.

no... im not going to shoot mr. grizz with a .50

maybe like you say, a .62 or bigger.

anoth rifle i have plans for is a old lyman trade rifle, .50cal, wanting to maybe ? go .72cal and a mule ear lock.

just saying.

[dualsport]

Now you got me thinking. Where do you get these barrels? I have a nice bunch of OTC muzzleloaders with factory barrels, a .72 sounds like fun. Always wanted a smoothbore TC, but missed that boat. Maybe I could get one for one of my Hawkens

[buckweet]

Now you got me thinking. Where do you get these barrels? I have a nice bunch of OTC muzzleloaders with factory barrels, a .72 sounds like fun. Always wanted a smoothbore TC, but missed that boat. Maybe I could get one for one of my Hawkens

i called Ed Rayl, he makes barrel's

colerain barrel co. also, and rice barrel co.

several out there, colerain makes a turkey barrel.

[buckweet]

ok.... im kicking this around some more.... some of you guys are pushing almost 2k outta a patched round ball...
with shorter barrel's than mine.
so ? maybe like fire and iron say's, a harder alloy, ball... in my 42'' 1-72 barrel ? should be a screamer.

[buckweet]

impressive numbers, guys.

thanks

[Geraldo]

Now you got me thinking. Where do you get these barrels? I have a nice bunch of OTC muzzleloaders with factory barrels, a .72 sounds like fun. Always wanted a smoothbore TC, but missed that boat. Maybe I could get one for one of my Hawkens

Look around for Green Mountain drop-in barrels. I've got a few of them for TCs, both rifled and smoothbore.

[buckweet]

well... as all of you have, i've read several thoughts/posts of how the .50 caliber is somewhat ''?'' of the ''min'' for whitetail deer. but we've seen the pictures of .357max, to prove otherwise.
because of the general belief, that the .50 starts running outta steam pretty fast after 50 yards,
but to lay that to rest, i've killed a few deer with my pop's old lyman, but granted they was ''under'' 50 yards, only one was out there about 75 yards.
so i got interested in in the ''momentum formula'' with this long 42'' 1-72 barrel. . sounds reasonable to me ? push this .50 caliber as fast as i can, within its accuracy zone, and have both, speed and momentum.
out to and past 100 yards.
should dang near knock em off their feets.

[Potsy]

I went to Hornady's website and ran a .50 roundball with a B.C. of .068 and a velocity of 1900fps. I used a sight height of .5".
@ 50 yards the bullet was running 1414fps., 1093fps @ 100, and 836fps @ 200.
BTW, the drop was 26" @ 200 yards with a 100 yard sight in.
In other words, at 200 yards, that ball is still carrying the swat of a heavy loaded .38 Special at the muzzle with whole lot more diameter.
I'm not saying it's RESPONSIBLE to use a .50 ball on game @ 200 yards; I'm saying the ball should definitely be CAPABLE once it gets there.

[buckweet]

I went to Hornady's website and ran a .50 roundball with a B.C. of .068 and a velocity of 1900fps. I used a sight height of .5".
@ 50 yards the bullet was running 1414fps., 1093fps @ 100, and 836fps @ 200.
BTW, the drop was 26" @ 200 yards with a 100 yard sight in.
In other words, at 200 yards, that ball is still carrying the swat of a heavy loaded .38 Special at the muzzle with whole lot more diameter.
I'm not saying it's RESPONSIBLE to use a .50 ball on game @ 200 yards; I'm saying the ball should definitely be CAPABLE once it gets there.

potsy !! now thats just some awsome information !!!
you da' man !
makes me thinks the ol' ''big fifty'' aint such a slouch after all.

[405]

An anecdote doesn't prove a thing and you can't prove a negative. Not too long ago the standing record black bear in MI had been killed with a 25-20!

My anecdote (from 35 years ago) about the 50 RB as a hunting round doesn't prove or disprove anything either it just demonstrates what can go wrong. With the soft or pure lead RB I came to the conclusion long ago that velocity is not the magic that many portray it to be and it may even be that high velocity can be an enemy of clean kills with that type projectile.

I was deer hunting with a fellow using a 50 cal TC "Hawken" shooting RBs. He was using 90 gr of FFg BP behind the RB. He shot a medium sized deer at 45 yards broadside. The deer ran off. It stumbled at the shot and was obviously hit. He did not recover the deer. Two weeks later that fellow was hunting with another friend of his. The second fellow killed a deer in the same area. The deer antlers matched perfectly the antlers of the shot-and-lost deer. When skinning, cleaning they found a large area of infection around the shoulder on the same side that the lost deer was shot on. They found a RB smashed like a pancake up against the shoulder blade. I had a chance to look at the deer and the RB before it was taken home. There was no doubt it was the same deer. The lead "pancake" was later weighed- almost exactly 180 grs. There is no doubt, in my mind at least, that at high impact velocity, the soft 50 RB can deform to roughly the shape and relative thickness of a 100 cal 180 gr pancake of lead. If it hits bone even the relatively thin flat bone of a med sized deer's shoulder blade it may not penetrate at all! Estimated total penetration in the above case was about 3 inches of hide and muscle.... no bone penetration. An odd angle shot would obviously be even more uncertain with the RB at the higher velocities. A RB placed into the heart lung area of that sized animal and missing all bones except maybe a rib would likely be a good, lethal, clean killing shot. Results of other, poorer angle hits most likely become even less certain. Dino slayers they ain't.

[357maximum]

The nicest thing about being a caster is that you can add or subtract "stuff" from your alloy to make it perform the way you wish for the launch speeds at hand.

Some anecdotes are hard to believe unless you were there. I have seen a few anecdotes that I would not have believed if I had not seen it myself. I have been personally involved in about 325-350 or so whitetail kills with rifle/ML/Bow/shotgun......you see some amazing things both good and bad in that many kills.

I was at camp when my F.I.L's nephew killed a doe with less than 1.5 inches of penetration with an arrow....popped the lung with the broadheads tip only and she went 70 yards and laid dead cold when found. No blood trail to follow, just tracks in the pine needles. It was a hands and knees affair to find her. Too long a distance with too weak a bow and an inexperienced bad choice by a talented young archer caused that affair.

I am of the opinion that a little "stuff" in your roundball alloy is a help not a hindrance when you start leaving the muzzle at over 1500FPS.....but that is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.


I have seen an up close and personal shot with a 45 caliber 230 grain Gold Dot HP in a .50 sabot from a 2k load in a 15inch encore pistol fail almost identical as in the 405's above anecdote. The buck was retrieved later that day but it was an "adventure" . The bullet simply blew up on the shoulder blade. My dad was simply pushing that 45acp bullet beyond it's intended purpose and capabilities. In that situation ...doubling the distance would have been alot better IMHO. But the real way to fix it was to change to a home cast lee 230gr TC-TL boolit in the same saboted load. The alloy I chose was AC50/50 ww/pure and it has performed flawlessly for the old man time and again since even on a few less than ideal hits. BRP designed a couple of 45ina50 sabot boolits for the same purpose with long range stability and retaining kill factor in mind....they work well in a longer barrel. Ir is what I will use first when I get my 1in28 barrel back.


There is alot of considerations and balancing to be done when you make the decision to make meat out of one of GOD"S critters. Placement is key....but only if your boolit is up to the challenge of things not going so swimmingly well.... it happens.

I have simplified my life and alloy choices for the most part. I make 450lb batches of 50/50 ww/pure and use it in just about everything that is moving 1500+ in speed. When I get above 2k I waterdrop it...........I really like the simplicity of it myself. I still use softer mixes for sub speed plinkers in a few toys...but if it is a 1500+ kill shot I will have one version or another of 50/50 in the barrel from now on.

I shot a doe this year at +-90 yards with a .50 and a lead pipe RB...it did the job well with perfect shot placement. I could see by the damage inflicted to her insides that a slightly harder yet mallable ball could possibly do the job better and cover a what if situation a whole lot better.

Autopsies can be quite thought provoking learning experiences. The more of em you do the more you refine your thoughts.

[buckweet]

now , that is some interesting reading,
all i've ever used is the old lyman, and pure lead.
but i made some good shots, they went down like a poleaxed steer,
but ? i wants the best i can use, so glad to hear what you guys have to say.
im of the opinion, now ? just keep doing what i've always did/ scout out the deer, and get close, but a little harder alloy, or water dropped, makes sense.
and on the other hand ? im not stuck with just the .50.
i'll have a .62 b4 too long.
also, as far as storys go, i've shot a few with my AR, with barns TSX's 70 grainers,
they worked very well.
passed plum through, and a half dollar size hole out the other side.
i want to hunt with the BP, just wanting to do it right.so far , so good.

[Potsy]

Well, as long as were discussing penetration, or lack thereof....
Years ago, I shot a big nine while Dad and I were out hunting. We were actually looking for a cull whose leg I shot off that morning (bad decision, bad shot, only deer I ever lost).
A doe and the big nine jumped up about 15 FEET in front of me in the thick stuff. I shot him in the neck with a Barnes MZ 250, it did not exit, but he did hit the ground. Dad ran up carring my round ball gun. The buck was still trying to gain his legs and I shot him behind the shoulder with a Speer RB at about 10 feet. It angled in behind the shoulder, we found it flattened against the far shoulder.
I learned a few lessons that day:
A) Don't take moving shots in a fog with the sun in your face.
B) Barnes bullets look cool, but the XTP's I was using (and have used since) are cheaper and will penetrate at least that good.
C) A pure lead .50 rounball at close range and high speed ain't a big bonebreaker.

FWIW, a couple years before this episode, I shot a spike with the same CVA Hawken with a rounball in the neck at about 50 yards, it did not exit either.
Dad did however shoot one deer behind the shoulder at 50 yards, the deer made a 30 yard run and ball went all the way through. It's just not a big bonebreaker, that's all.