Help ! 40 S &W

[pt4u2nv]

OK, been working to get my boolits just where I think I need them with alot of help from you guys and finally got to load some and shoot em. Problem is it appears I am getting signs of high pressure that worries me quite a bit. Here are the details.

Winchester Brass ( probably fired 2 -3 times
Fed 100 Primer
AA#7 Powder ( Started at 7.6 grs, went to 8.3 at .1 gr increments)
177 gr cast boolit ( actual weight ) from RCBS mold # 82067
BHN is approx 10.4
COL 1.130
Bore slugged at .403
Cast boolit sized at .405
Chrony did not work well so I do not have FPS ( too frigin cold )

Anyway , the primers appear to be flattening even at the starting load of 7.6 and continues the whole way thru the 8.3 load. Not any worse from begininning to end. When I went to reload the next batch with the load that appeared to shoot the most accurate ( 7.7 grs ) 2 of the ( 50 ) cases split wide open on the sides, from top to bottom, which I luckly caught after the bullets were seated and complete. (I use a progressive press so don't see them till they are done.) What am I doing wrong and how do I fix it ? I have been loading for over 25 years ( although new to casting ) and have never seen this before , I was seating a bit deeper on prior loads and thought maybe that was the problem so I seated them out a bit from 1.120( recommended) to 1.130 thinking that would help but to no avail. I am reading some accounts that the .40 is a caliber to be careful with on pressure issues but I never dreamed it would be this fussy. Any insite on this would be appreciated.

[Echo]

I believe Fed primers are known for being soft (I believe Lee advises against their use in their priming system), so that may be the cause of your flattened primers.

And for a case (or TWO!) to split that way after only 2-3 reloadings indicates excessive re-sizing, to me. Were the cases new, or once-fired, when you obtained them, or were they factory rounds you fired yourself? If your chamber is at the high end of tolerance, and your sizing die is at the low end, the brass gets worked too much, work-hardens, and splits.

Meine zwei pfennig...

[pt4u2nv]

The brass was new when I started. I loaded them about 3 times max. As for the sizing die it is an RCBS Carbide 40/10MM that I have been using for years on my 10MM. with no issues at all. Of course it was with a different pistol, the 40 I am shooting now is a S & W Sigma. This just does not make sense to me at all !!!! The head stamping on the brass is also starting to fade out...again in my mind a hint of too much pressure. I am going to stop loading cast for now until I figure this out. I am going to try some Hornady XTP's to maybe eliminate any issues with the cast boolits and see if they show the same pressure issues. I just assumed it was the cast since I never had this before in any other handgun. I just started using my own cast boolits with the 40...so it is new to me, along with the 40.

[sst04]

Too much Crimp???

[Jayhem]

Yea I was going to ask about how much crimping you were doing. On my 40 I have to crimp the mouth of the case to .421-.422 in order for my cast reloads to cycle. I'm using 5.5 gr. of WSF and so far so good. I'm using 175 gr Lee TC boolits and my OAL is 1.120

[Rico1950]

Pt4u2nv,
Assuming you have no leading issues, you can do a number of things.
Try another primer.
Back down on powder charge. All guns are different. If it is in fact a pressure issue your chrono will tell you.
Shooting the j word should show no signs of pressure with that load. the j bullets are .005" smaller than your .405" boolits.
I hope you double checked your powder weight. They can vary.

[mpmarty]

Have you used the same load for j boolits? When you started loading cast did you find you had to suddenly increase the amount of belling on the case mouth? Excess belling and subsequent crimping can start a small crack in the mouth that would "creep" deeper into the case as it progressed.

[pt4u2nv]

Have you used the same load for j boolits? When you started loading cast did you find you had to suddenly increase the amount of belling on the case mouth? Excess belling and subsequent crimping can start a small crack in the mouth that would "creep" deeper into the case as it progressed.

Yes, I did have to bell the mouth more with the cast. I was also wondering if that was causing the split in the case.

[pt4u2nv]

Too much Crimp???

That is possible....I will load a few up backing off on the crimp and see if that helps too.

[pt4u2nv]

Pt4u2nv,
Assuming you have no leading issues, you can do a number of things.
Try another primer.
Back down on powder charge. All guns are different. If it is in fact a pressure issue your chrono will tell you.
Shooting the j word should show no signs of pressure with that load. the j bullets are .005" smaller than your .405" boolits.
I hope you double checked your powder weight. They can vary.

That is on my list of things to try also since you mentioned it.I actually have been really careful with the powder weights so I am sure that is not the issue. Backing off a little sounds like a good idea also. I will have to try one thing at a time to try to isolate what the issue is.

I did go back on some records I kept and forgot that I did load a few j bullets a month or so ago and looks like I had the same primer issue with the j bullets 8.7 grs to 9.5 grs of AA#7 under 180 GDHP's.

[MtGun44]

Make sure your boolits are not getting seated deeper in the cases as they
run up the feed ramp. This will raise pressures, and in a high pressure round
like the 40, likely to dangerous levels.

What gun? Glocks are known to have some issues with handloaded lead boolit ammo,
LOTS of them have been blown up. Some say that they know exactly why this
happens, I certainly claim no expertise in the area other than to note that I
have one friend, a very experienced rifle reloader that blew up his Glock,
then replaced the barrel with a Bar-Sto and has had no trouble since.

Any time the gun is telling you that the pressures are high - back off the powder
as the first thing. If you find out there was some other issue, you can slowly go
back to the load you want. A chrono is one of the best ways to control pressure.

If X amount of Such-and-So Powder is supposed to make 1100 fps with a certain
boolit weight and is making 1250 in your gun you can be absolutely certain that
your load is producing a bunch more pressure than the test gun, for whatever
reason isn't particularly important. Back off the powder until you get 1100 fps
over the chrono and you will be OK (assuming similar barrel lengths). If the
test barrel is 8 inches and your 3.5" minigun is getting the same as published
velocity - you are at a higher pressure for sure.

Bill

[243winxb]

I would slug the bore again, if you get .403", i would size to .403"

[The Double D]

Shot 2-3 timez or shot probably 2 or 3 times.... full lengthe resized? were the case ever annealed?

Doesn't sound like hot loads to me, sounds like work harden cases.

[sagamore-one]

Let me throw a couple more possibilities in your direction.
First , you could have an over size chamber thus allowing the brass to expand more upon firing. Would be more apparent using cast as cast seals the bore better.
Second, you may have a weakened recoil spring allowing the barrel to move to the unlock position quicker, thus rupturing cases. I had a 40 Star that ruptured cases , even factory ammo, till a fresh recoil spring was installed.
I size my 40 boolits .401. .405 may be a bit large for that particular bore.
Just food for thought.

[johnlaw484]

Glocks don't like reloads because a bottom portion of the case is unsupported and we all know that with each reload the case becomes weaker.

[CWME]

First question, WHERE DID YOU GET A .405 sizer??? Only sizes I can find commercially for a .40 cal are .401.
Are you sure your barrel needs a .405 bullet?? That is .004 larger than normal. I would size them to .401 and see if you still get pressure and then worry about leading. This too me sounds like an issue of too large a bullet spiking the chamber pressures before the bullet is sized in the throat and starts down the barrel.

I have been shooting my Glock 22 with reloads for 7 years now with no issues. Both stock barrel and Wolf aftermarkets for lead. Would suspect hot rodding to be the culprit 99% of the time with Glock issues.

[Echo]

Let me throw a couple more possibilities in your direction.
First , you could have an over size chamber thus allowing the brass to expand more upon firing. Would be more apparent using cast as cast seals the bore better.

My thought too. What is the diameter of the newly-fired case? Do you notice resizing taking more muscle than usual?

[afrance]

I did go back on some records I kept and forgot that I did load a few j bullets a month or so ago and looks like I had the same primer issue with the j bullets 8.7 grs to 9.5 grs of AA#7 under 180 GDHP's.

If your notes are accurate with this information you overcharged these loads by 1.0 full grain according to Accurate Powders website. Gold Dots and XTPs are typically similar (large hollowpoint, deeply seated compared to traditional designs).

On page 5 of the free PDF the 180 gr XTP start charge for AA#7 is 7.7 gr and max charge is 8.5 gr ~34,600 PSI. Not sure what pressure was reached but it probably was closer to rifle pressures (50K+) and explains the faded headstamp and primer flattening.

Alan

[truckmsl]

I've shot many 10's of thousands of cast boolits through my glock 23 (.40 cal) with Lone Wolf barrel. My experience is that harder boolits work better in a .40 auto loader, and target loads work better than full power. With target loads, there seems to be almost no limit to how many reloads the brass will take. My sense is that you're pushing too fast with too soft of a boolit. All of mine get sized to .401, and leading of the barrel is never an issue. .40 S&W is a very high pressure round, and you're asking a lot of your soft lead.

[TAWILDCATT]

thats why I like the 1911 in 45 acp.I dont want any pistol running 35/40 lb pressure.and to many new shooters are getting 40s.you others are replacing the barrels to shoot lead.you know the glock is not good with reloads.I have seen the pictures of blown glocks.