25-20 cases and reloading

[Paladin 56]

Marvin,

It's the brass. I don't use Remington brass for that very reason, and haven't done so for 30 years. I've had many factory loaded rounds split the necks when I used to buy factory ammo for the brass.

I have a S&W 25-20 that I've loaded for over 25 years and haven't lost a piece of brass yet. I also have a Savage 23B with nowhere near the number of rounds through, but haven't lost any brass with it either.

You might try annealing those you have left until you can replace them. I never bothered annealing Remington brass but it may be worth a try.

David

[rickster]

FWIW Attached are pics of cases from a Rem 25 that had a "expanded" chamber due to an overload fired by the previous owner. The pics are of a ruptured case fired in the expanded chamber, a normal case fired in another rifle, and an unfired case.

[Marvin S]

Thats what im talking about but mine are not near that bad.

[lwknight]

I have had new never loaded remington brass that was split before I even put a bullet in it.
Only once but it can happen. Who knows , with the high production demand QC might be a bit thin.

[Bent Ramrod]

You can run into a bad lot of .25-20 WCF brass sometimes. I had a bunch of Super-X 60 gr HV ammo which split over 50% of the cases on firing. Some other brass has held on reloading after reloading.

I've noticed that reformed .218 Bee brass seems to be a little less thin at the mouth and the sides than the .25-20 shells. I anneal before reshaping, and the reformed shells stand noticeably more reloading than the regular .25-20.

[Echo]

The dies are sizeing them back to the original head dia of the Remington cases. If the cases where made to what the Accurate loading manual says they are supposed to be I dont think it would be a problem.

Did you measure the sized cases with a micrometer? Are you SURE they are being correctly resized?

[Marvin S]

What is really correctly resized. The body of the case close to the head is being sized back to head dia which is .344. Many case drawings I find say the head/body dia should be .349. My chamber cast out at .354. This was all measured with a 0-1 Scherr Tumico mic that passes PMEL @ +/- 0.0001.

[9.3X62AL]

I have a S&W 25-20 that I've loaded for over 25 years and haven't lost a piece of brass yet.

Now, THAT would be a COOL rat strafer! K-frame, perhaps?

[Tom Myers]

The image composite below is is made up of drawings of a SAAMI Spec chamber and SAAMI Spec Cartridge case. You can compare your chamber and cases to the SAAMI Specs and determine which problem aspect needs to be addressed.

Hope this helps.

[Marvin S]

Well I know Remington cases don't meet these specs. I also doubt the lee dies are made correctly either. The winchester case on the right used as an example looks about the same as the Rem case. I dont really see a chamber dia in the drawing.

[Marvin S]

Okay re read the above drawing (Thanks Tom) and got another one from leverguns.com and they pretty much agree with each other. The problem seems to be in both areas, chamber and cases not made to specs. The chamber may have been streched from too hot a load at some time but the cases sure ain't helping either. So while I decide what to do with it I have found a Savage 23B in 25-20 that should be here in a couple weeks. Thanks to all for the fat to chew on.

[Paladin 56]

Now, THAT would be a COOL rat strafer! K-frame, perhaps?

K-frame it is. Model 14 K-38 fitted with a K-22 cylinder reamed to 25-20. Barrel is sleeved to .257". Did that around 1981.

Kills rock chucks on contact. Too hard on cottontails with 60 grain Hornady Flat Points. 75 grain Lyman cast boolits are what I have used most. I really haven't done an extreme amount of testing, but haven't experienced all the problems (case setback, et al) some have sworn would take place shooting a 25-20 in a pistol.

Linebaugh Penetration test results for this gun can be seen at this link http://www.handloads.com/misc/lineba...tion.tests.asp at the bottom of the list. Both loads were the same case, primer, powder weight, and bullet weight (75 gr.). The first bullet is from a commercial caster w/GC at 1,049 fps. The second test was with everything the same except the bullet, which was my Lyman cast with LBT blue lube for 1,244 fps.

I've loaded and shot it faster and it's a hoot to shoot, and fairly flat at longer ranges.

David

[semtav]

so far I'd been shooting new brass. 1/2 Remington and 1/2 Winchester.

'Started to reload some last night. first my RCBS die is sizing the neck too small and working it to much, so I need to cure that, but after running my first shell (Remington) thru the resizer 3 times the case split. It does look and feel paper thin.
So I quit and went back to using new brass for the time being.

after reading this thread again tonight, I decided to try the same to one Winchester shell. Ran it thru 3 times, No problems. think I'll stay with Winchester.

For sale - -50 new and 49 once fired Remington 25-20 cases.

[Marvin S]

I need to get some Win cases ordered from Buffalo Arms. My 23 Savage should be here next week, that will give me something else to compare to. rickster do you know what that mod 25 chamber dia was/is and did you do anything to repair it with maybe a liner.

[TAWILDCATT]

I bought 100 220 swift to make in to 6.5 jap.first round bulged so bad I stopped
the rem brass expanded 19 thos.checked specs and the brass was not even right for 220 swift.I have a 100 rds of junk.seems like your brass may be wrong.the barrel may be bulged but I would think the barrel would witstand overload better than the action.

[Hang Fire]

As others have noted, the little 25-20 bugger will stretch and split, tis the norm, not the exception.

[9.3X62AL]

Paladin 56--

That paper penetration is right impressive.

No case set-back, eh? Another myth busted.

Right now, I'm up to my armpits in 25-20 brass, 650 pieces that need squaring and trimming. That 25-20 revolver idea is still rattling around in my head, with an under-performing S&W Model 617 in the gun safe. I'd hate to take tools to a nice original M-17, but this stainless critter with the underlug barrel annoys me with its steak & lobster ammo requirements. Cotillion Debutante rimfire ammo tastes don't play well in my gun safe.

[Marvin S]

I have had the Win 25-20 cases on order @ Buff Arms but they are out of it along with everyone else so it's back ordered. At least they did call and tell me.
I may shoot the Savage this weekend and see what it does. Ill post the results.

[Drilling Man]

I was surprised to read here that case problems are common with the 25/20, as i had a Rem. pump 25/20 and i never loss even one case in it. I still have a M-19 S&W revolver chambered in 25/20 and i've NEVER had a case problem in it either...

DM

[rickster]

Checking up on this thread after a month.

I too am surprised at those that say the 25-20 cases are prone to problems. I have several 25-20s and none are hard on cases if the dies are set up correctly. And most of my cases are Remingtons.

Marvin,
I just now saw your question. As I recall, the fired cases measured like a 256 Win Mag. At first I thought the rifle had been rechambered. That was before I disassembled it and found the receiver bent. I straightened the receiver and rebarreled it. That was thousands of rounds ago.