Noob questions/guidance 444 marlin

[McMullen759]

Been lurking here a while, decide to bite the boolit so to speak and join/post.

Looking to get some guidance on some load workups for 444 marlin, I'll list out the parameters and what I'm looking to achieve and some questions I'm hoping to get answered.

Parameters:
Weapon- '73 Marlin 444ss 22" Barrel.

Boolit/Mold- Brand new brass MP Molds 432-256 (HG#503 Clone) solid tip, Plain Base. Should drop about 260gr .432-.433 with straight wheel weight according to the site, will know when I get a chance to mold a few.

Brass- factory remington 240gr soft points (15 total- 3 fired/decapped so far. looking to get more factory ammo to shoot/reload- maybe leverevolution as it seems to be all I can track down. May order a 50pc bag of starline brass).

Press- Lee Hand Press with quick change collars (looks kinda like a set of bolt cutters, no bench mount. I like the portability aspect but could result in lower consistency).

Primers/powder- Waiting guidance and to see what is available in my area. From reading here and at Marlinowners I see Winchester Large rifle primers as well as IMR 4198, H 4895 and Reloader 7 coming up as top recommendations over and over.

Goals:
Primary goal is a light-moderate recoil, accurate loading that gives me good accuracy/minimal drop out to 200 for paper and sufficient punch to anchor whitetails at that range.

One loading to accomplish both would be ideal. Something I can enjoy shooting like 50 of but still have enough oomph for hunting... maybe I'm asking a lot here but I think it's doable. Maybe in the 1500-2000fps range or so, I don't really know enough to make the call there.

Questions:
Is my do all cartridge loading a reasonable expectation? If so any recommendations on a start point (powder type/amount, wads/fillers, etc)?

Should I water drop or air cool? Will pressures for the intended velocity range be too much for air soft/too little for hard (obturation, etc)?

Should I consider/try paper patching for some higher end loads (won't be doing gas checks)?

Is there anything big I seem to have missed/overlooked?

Any other general ideas/recommendations?

Oh! last thing I swear, any recommended lube recipes- I want to make my own if possible. Don't necessarily need detailed instructions, just a direction to go searching in. Simple is best.

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can offer, there is such a huge wealth of knowledge on here its overwhelming at times, hence the directed post. I find everytime I get on here searching I leave with more questions than I started with hahaha.

[Bazoo]

Howdy and welcome to the forum.

I have the M-P 432-256- HG#503 in my catalog if it helps you.

Paper patching would require a slightly smaller bullet diameter so that the finished diameter would be correct.

Why would you not want to use gas checks? Cost?

No reason a Lee Handpress won't make great loads, and they are satisfying to use.

No reason you can't have a reasonably mild load that will also work fine for deer.

I've never loaded the 444 Marlin, but the Ranch Dog 432-265-RF was made for the 444, and works dandy in my 44 Magnum. I lubricate mine through a Lyman 450. I use White Label 50-50.

If you do decide to go with that bullet, NOE makes a copy: SC432-267-RF-Z4, and is available with a plain base or gas check base.

[RickinTN]

Red Dot or Unique are the powders I use when shooting such a bullet as you have. I shoot them in the 1,100 to 1,200 fps range. Hardly enough to use as a 200 yard efficient deer killer. I'm afraid the powders you want to use won't give clean burn at the velocities you can push your bullet. If you use the powders to their potential I think you will have a leaded mess. I use a bullet from a mold from Tom at Accuratemolds.com Thet weighs 265 grains and is a gas-check bullet. Toms molds are wonderful to cast with and are a work of art. I told Tom what I wanted my bullet to weigh and for him to put his "Marlin Nose" on the bullet and it appeared in the mailbox in short order. With this bullet you should be able to push to your 1,700 to 1,800 fps range and hopefully fulfill your 200 yard hunting range. You do need the gas check.
Good Luck,
Rick

[Rapier]

Not to tell you what to do, only what I do.
I have a first month 1969 bought new, production Marlin 444 rifle, not a carbine, no pistol grip. It has the micro grove riflng and is .432 groove. First off the open sights are way too big, so I put an old Bushnell, steel body, USA made 2x on a Tip off mount. The tip off returns to zero every time. Scope solved many problems. Receiver is flat, base is flat.

Jacketed loads 240 grain JHPs with 4064 powder. Every deer had the entire contents of the chest cavity turned to liquid and blown out the off side in a fine spray, no bullets ever recovered. In the SE we do not really need heavier bullets, even for 5-600# hogs.

Cast, I use very Hard cast, only, water dropped, will hold to the micro groove lands. The old stories about cast can not shoot in the micro groove, is all based on soft cast bullets, which will strip every time. Been there done that. I use Unique powder, Lyman SWCs 240 GC and 210 SWC GC, with LBT Blue, sized to the groove diameter, crimped with a taper crimp die to straight case (two stage, seat then crimp). Loads 10 gr w 240and 12grains with the 210. The 240 is the Ram load. The 210 is more accurate and hold 1" at 200 on a chicken off a bench, so I use that load ( C, P, T and SO) as my shoot off load for Cowboy Silhouette matches, which are all shot off hand. The 4064 JHP load for hunting is the Lyman #45 or #47 accuracy load for the 444. The Unique loads are very easy on the shoulder for a 40 round match.
Today, finding the powders and primers can be a trick

[Pereira]

Just remember that the Hornady LVR ammo is a shorter brass.
Starline makes good brass, but the 444's isn't always available.
My plinking load for my P, is from the Lyman 429650.
With my particular present mix mine drop a touch over 320 grs.
PC and stuff them over 24-25 grs of 2400, it's a Hoot and slaps the ole gongs right well.
Never tried it long distance, but with a healthy dose of H4198 I bet it would.

RP

[McMullen759]

Wow, a lot of great info in a short bit of time. Thanks so much guys, I really appreciate it.
I wrote a reply and it became a book so I will attempt to summarize haha.
what I'm getting here is:
- gas checks are in my future for heavier loads to get my 200yd killing range, I should either pick lower effective range for an all-'rounder or plan for 2 loadings.
- The slower powders should be good to drive at high velocity (w/ GCs) but the lower power rounds will work better with the snappier powders (anyone feel free to jump in if I've got that twisted, I don't know powders that well but that's the concept that makes the most sense based on what I'm reading here).
- Brass options are limited in availability and I may need to figure out more details on the short evolution brass.

Thanks again everyone, I'm learning lots here. In the next week or so I'll be doing up some dummy rounds to get my OAL figured out and looking into what powders/primers are available. Looking forward to what others have to say on things. Great community here, keep being wonderful hoomans!

[farmbif]

I have not messed with the 444 in a little while. if the 503 clone loads and chambers in your gun thats a good bullet deign in all my 44's anyway. the 4198's and reloder7 are good choices. last I messed with the 444 I was working on loads using 432-640, seating it deeply and crimping with lee factory crimp die so it would function through my 444s. I might add that the round nose flat point usually works best in lever actions. but a deep seated semi wadcutter the Lyman 359156 works exceptionally well in my 357 mag lever gun.
and I started working up loads using 8208 which is about the same burn rate as 4895. then I was waylaid in a car crash and have yet to get back to my newest loads for the 444.

[murf205]

Mac, welcome to the forum. This place and this casting thing is an addiction and lots of great people willing to lend a hand. If you decide to try the SWC design in your Marlin, I would get a handful and load some light or even dummy rounds to see if they will run through your gun without hanging up. The front driving band on the swc boolits seems to feed fine in some guns and not so fine in others. In my 45/70 Marlin, I had better luck with round nose/flat point boolits like the one Bazoo showed. I would water drop for that gun and use gas checks for speedier loads for sure. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask questions.

[gunseller]

In my 45/70 a Marlin of about the same age as your 444i shoot 400 grain flat nose. They are cast of strate wheel weights. No gas checks just flat based. I use IMR 3031 powder. I get jest oner 2000 fps. Sounds like a Mac truck hit the deer when I shoot one. Starting at 1800 fps is plenty gast to shoot deer at 200 yards. I have shot deer at 205yards using a 45 Colt with a 260 grain bullet at around 1100 fps. Have fun and enjoy yourself.

[Gtek]

First off, welcome to the forum! The second point, the first thing I would go confirm is the bore to see if it is a Monday, Wednesday or a Friday gun. Make a very tight patch/jag set up on a good stiff rod, bolt out and chamber to muzzle and feel for choke points at rear and front sight dovetails and sometimes roll stamp area. Any of that in a Microgroove and finding this has the potential for some real disappointment trying to squirt Boolits well. Also strip and place very SMALL chamfer on floor just breaking edge of chamber entry from about 4-8 O'Clock. If you can get it to eat Keith Boolits well life is good and experiment on from there. Also I believe you are living in the 1-38 twist world, going heavier you may find a little more bang required to find joy. They are a hoot and I probably have too many of various sized holes. Careful they are like potato chips, after the first one you'll be reaching for a second one!

[Ford SD]

what ever mould you get, cast up a few and make up a dummy round and check if it will fit in the chamber.

Get a lee factory crimp die.

one of the many articles on the 444 with some load data

ht tps://www.handloadermagazine.com/444-marlin

[GhostHawk]

I love my .444 H&R handi rifle.
R
I have mostly shot mine with 300 gr, 240 gr, and 200 gr cast boolits, first with gas check, the lighter ones are plain base.

I have run from 13 grains of Red Dot powder down to 6. All work fine for punching paper at 100. But 10 and under were notably easier on my shoulder. Pick a powder and go dig up some loads, see what works.