Why I REFUSE to use Paypal Friends and Family

[Ohio Rusty]

There was a listmember over on one of the 18th century lists that bought $250 worth of ranger gear off of a seller. The seller kept the money, never sent the goods and blocked the buyer from all contact. The Buyer used Friends and Family and now he is totally S.O.L. ..... If he would have used the Goods and Services option, Paypal would have refunded the whole amount back to the buyer. Everyone is so worried about the extra couple dollars fees extra. When I use Paypal, I include a little extra to cover any extra fees so I can use the protection of the Goods and Services option. I want to protect every purchase .... no matter if it is a inexpensive book, a boolit mould or a $2200 rifle. If the seller refuses my paypal choice of payment -- NO SALE !! That should be a red flag to EVERYONE on this list to not do business with that individual that will only accept Paypal Friends and Family. There is so much treachery and hijacking of items happening now with sales of everything on the 'net, Goods and Services is my only way to protect my purchase. Even a Postal Money order isn't always safe. Someone you don't know and never met could cash that check and never send you anything. How do you know the Seller on the other end is real and not using fake screen names ?? What a hassle to try and press charges against a person that may not be real.
Just my .02 cents worth
Ohio Rusty ><>

[greybuff]

i was scammed using Paypal F&F and there is no recourse. Pay the little extra and be safe.

[huntersdog]

Many people will refund Goods and Services payments as with the new tax laws reporting you to the IRS for sales over $600 per year..

Many don't care if they send the funds back to you, someone else is line who usually will buy it.

[fatelk]

There's another side to this now, besides the fees. I've been helping an older friend get rid of some of his stuff, and I will take paypal for the convenience of the buyer if they want it, but I strongly prefer F&F. Why? I don't care about the couple dollars in fees; the problem is the new tax reporting, where I'll end up having to pay income tax on something that wasn't even my sale. Regular paypal is subject to the reporting, where F&F isn't.

I don't have a problem with paying taxes, but I don't want the hassle of reporting for helping someone else sell something that isn't even mine. There's always some risk, and the small stuff I've sold on here, I haven't had any issue with even taking personal checks from people who have been on here for 5-15 years.

On the other hand, like you I would also be really leery of sending hundreds to a complete stranger with no recourse whatsoever. It's all a judgement call.

[huntersdog]

There's another side to this now, besides the fees. I've been helping an older friend get rid of some of his stuff, and I will take paypal for the convenience of the buyer if they want it, but I strongly prefer F&F. Why? I don't care about the couple dollars in fees; the problem is the new tax reporting, where I'll end up having to pay income tax on something that wasn't even my sale. Regular paypal is subject to the reporting, where F&F isn't.

I don't have a problem with paying taxes, but I don't want the hassle of reporting for helping someone else sell something that isn't even mine. There's always some risk, and the small stuff I've sold on here, I haven't had any issue with even taking personal checks from people who have been on here for 5-15 years.

On the other hand, I would be really leery of sending hundreds to a complete stranger with no recourse whatsoever. It's all a judgement call.

I think times of MO and checks are going to coming back.

[2TM101]

Paypal Friends & Family is for friends you personally know - and family. It was never meant for regular business.

[fatelk]

Paypal Friends & Family is for friends you personally know - and family. It was never meant for regular business.

Correct in a sense. It's a personal transfer, basically like cash, with no legal strings, protections, or recourse. It's a free service and protection isn't free, that's why there's a fee for regular paypal. If you use the "friends and family" paypal, you have to realize that it's much like sending cash in an envelope; you assume the risk and better trust whoever you're dealing with.

For smaller amounts on a forum with another member who's been here for years, I'm OK with that risk. I personally have no problem with using it for limited transactions as a convenient, useful service.

For hundreds of dollars with a complete stranger? No way.

[Shawlerbrook]

Agree with fatelk. On a site like this with longtime members with a great record no problem. If I am not comfortable with the seller, I am not buying no matter what the payment method.

[brokeasajoke]

I'm selling a bunch of micrometers on another site. While I prefer PP F&F most have been sending personal checks which is fine by me. PP is anti second amendment rights so keep that in mind.

[Finster101]

I have used F&F on this sight frequently with no issues. I also have sent and accepted personal checks from members. I am perfectly fine with the seller not shipping till the check clears. I will not stand in line to buy a money order when the same can be accomplished with a check. You have to go somewhere to deposit it or cash it either way. If a MO is the only form of payment accepted I simply pass on the item or on this forum there are a couple of members that want MOs only so I don't even look at what is posted.

[Jack Russel]

I was also scammed that way on another site. Never again.

[rancher1913]

money orders are a royal pain to get around here so i usually ask if the seller will take a personal check but hold shipping until it clears, suppose even that way i could get scammed.

[Plate plinker]

I think times of MO and checks are going to coming back.

Doubtful, but I wouldn't mind. The younger generations often do not even have a checkbook or probably wouldn't even know how to write a check.

[Kraschenbirn]

Call me an 'old grump' if you will but, several years ago, I was burned on a PayPal screw-up and haven't used any form of PayPal since. Will accept personal checks from long-standing members here or from individuals I know personally but, otherwise, it's cash money or USPS MO.

Bill

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Why I REFUSE to use Paypal Friends and Family

When I use Paypal, I include a little extra to cover any extra fees so I can use the protection of the Goods and Services option. I want to protect every purchase .... no matter if it is a inexpensive book, a boolit mould or a $2200 rifle.

>>>SNIP

Ohio Rusty, Yes, I do agree, especially with new members, but it isn't about the fees.
...as huntersdog points out, many of us old timers "are not in business" and are just selling accumulated personal hobby tools and such, that we no longer use and won't use PP Goods and Services option because the new tax laws where PP is required to report to the IRS for sales over $600 per year.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I was also scammed that way on another site. Never again.

I agree with you
.
...and welcome to the forum
I enjoyed reading your 32 posts, all short and concise one line posts.
Are you new to casting?
Have a good Day.

[schutzen-jager]

quit using PP 3 years back - totally anti gun + they will freeze your money for over a year if they do not like anything gun related you are selling - friends + family now called trusted person, only a fool will utilize it with any unknown !

[kerplode]

I think times of MO and checks are going to coming back.

Boomer Pay sucks too. The jerkoffs at the USPS lost a MO I sent to a guy for a part I purchased on Gunbroker and it was a total PITA. Dude reported me as a "no communication" non-paying bidder after a couple days even though I told him via email what was going on. Then, it cost me an additional $18 to place a trace on the MO so that I could get a refund. Their helpful suggestion for the future...Send it registered mail for an additional $whatever plus having to listen to some old guy crow about having to sign for it. Yeah, nah.

I would have much rather just paid him with my Mastercard using GB's checkout process, but like everyone else, he's trying to skate on paying fees while also hiding his business revenue from taxation.

At this point, if someone doesn't take a CC payment, I'm out. I don't care what you have or how cheap it is.

[bedbugbilly]

I have no problem trusting long time members here on this site, whether selling or buying - I will take payment through PP, but much prefer to receive it as F & F. Thank the current Administration for that and their requirement of banks and others to report over $600 . . .. and I hope everyone remembers such things when it come time to vote.

As far as "scams" - IMHO, it is getting worse, and unfortunately, there are probably members isn any site, regardless of what the site is, that fall into the category of "bottom feeders" who are less than honest. We have noticed a big increase in scam e-mails over the past year. Surrised? Not really . . . . dean influx of 10 million + illegals and some of them are bound to want to supplement their income from the govt. that the taxpayers are paying for..

If you have a gut feeling about something being a possible scam . .. . walk away from it, or if you wish to use PP but are uneasy using the F & F, contact the seller and let them know how you want to pay for it. If you can't come to an agreement, then move on and forget it. Nobody wants to get scammed, and if it doesn't feels right, trust your instincts.

As much as I dislike having to use PP, based on their anti 2nd Amendment stance as well as their woke beliefs, sometimes as a seller or a buyer, you might have to. Again . . a personal choice. Personally, I'm old and I still have faith in people . . . unless my gut feeling tells me otherwise.

[Froogal]

quit using PP 3 years back - totally anti gun + they will freeze your money for over a year if they do not like anything gun related you are selling - friends + family now called trusted person, only a fool will utilize it with any unknown !

I quit using PP quite a few years ago. Never had any issues, but I simply lost my trust, and I don't do Ebay either for the same reason.