Comparison of Commonly Available Swage Dies

[rolltide999]

I have long since committed most of my dollars to RCE presses and dies, although I own many different kinds that I have picked up though the years if I find a good deal. I just purchased a WH conversion kit from the new Corbins, which enables using Dave Corbins "S" dies and "M" dies on a RCE press (Walnut Hill or Sea Girt). The conversion kit is well thought out and well made. The guys I spoke with at new Corbins are working remotely, 4 days per week, pretty laid back, in no big hurry, but friendly and eventually got things done. Anyway, I had never bought any S dies or M dies because I did not have a press for them. Now I can use them on my RCE presses, and I was able to catch a good deal on Flea Bay on some dies. I was also able to pick up a really sweet ejection tool to use with old Dave Corbin "R" dies (no longer made). It also works on other dies designed for reloading presses like BT Sniper, CH4D, and old Herters dies. I thought I would post a pic for comparison of a few of the different dies from different makers.

Left to right

1. RCE WH die (.308) and top and bottom punches,
2. Corbin "S" die (.284/7mm) and top and bottom punches,
3. Corbin "M" die (.357) and top and bottom punches,
4. BT Sniper die (.500) top punch is captured inside die and bottom punch is shown.

(click the picture to enlarge the photo)



As you can see, WH die size makes Corbin M die look like a toy, even the Corbin S die looks undersized, especially where it threads to the press. The reloading press die has the same thread diameter as the WH, but the main body is significantly thinner. WH dies are simply superior in size and strength to anything else until you get to 1.5" dies designed for hydraulic presses made by RCE, and maybe Corbins in the future.


If anyone else has pictures comparing different kinds of dies, different makers, please post them. I do not have any Blackmon dies or any "H" Corbins dies or any RCE 1.5" hydraulic dies.

[rolltide999]

Here is a comparison of the most common swage dies designed for reloading press. They are designed to have the bullet/core ejected by downward pressure on a plunger fitted through the top of the die. This can be done by the tap of a mallet, or a mechanical contrivance sometimes fitted to top of die, sometimes fitted on an "O" shaped device or "L" shaped device fitted to press ram so the bullet ejects on down stroke of ram. BT Sniper makes a "O" shaped device that he sells to use with his dies. I have one of those and it works well, but it only works with a very specific press and ram. My personal favorite is pictured below and was made by Dave Corbin years ago to use with his "R" type dies (now discontinued), also pictured below.

Various dies from various makers all designed for reloading presses.

Left to Right (Die with bottom punch)

1. BT Sniper - Jacketed Bullet. Bottom punch is threaded and must be used with specific press ram as specified by BT Sniper. These are still made and available on this web site in the vendor section. Hold on to you wallet. He is proud of them. You can buy a dedicated swaging press and 3 complete sets of WH swaging dies and have them next week from RCE, for what BT Sniper gets for one set of swaging dies, and you may have to wait months or years in some cases.
2, Swage-It - Lead Bullet. Made by Hawk Bullets. I have the printed instructions that came with this set. People say these are still available, but not advertised. I have no idea about price. I got mine on Flea Bay.
3. Unnamed - Lead Bullet. Bought this on Flea Bay. If anyone knows manufacturer, I would appreciate the info. Bottom punch has a steel base and a brass insert as the actual punch. Never seen any others like this.
4. CH4D - Lead Bullet. Discontinued
5. Herters - Lead Bullet. Discontinued
6. Corbins (Dave) - Jacketed Bullet. Discontinued

(Click to enlarge photos)

* NOTE - All lead bullet dies will do half jackets and 3/4 jackets, but they have the SWC "step" where the bearing surface and ogive meet.



Here is a Dave Corbin Ejection Tool for swaging dies used on reloading presses. It will slip over any 7/8" die to eject the bullet after the swage stroke. The manual ejection pin and it's screw adjustable guide must be removed to use this tool. The pin to the left must be used with some makes of dies. This is screw adjustable for length to work with a broad range of dies. The tool is all steel, except the handle piece which is a bronze casting.



Here is the ejection tool pictured with the unnamed swaging die, manual ejection rod and guide removed from die.



Here is the Corbin Ejection tool attached to the unnamed die.



This is simply the best ejection tool for reloading dies I have ever seen or used. BT Snipers ejection tool works great but is very press specific. The Corbin tool seems to work with dies for reloading presses regardless of die maker or press used. The fly in the buttermilk is, who knows if new Corbins will EVER make this tool again. Chances are slim since they abandoned "R" type dies for reloading presses years ago.

[dimaprok]

I myself picked up a set of Corbin dies recently and made my own conversion kit for RCE Richard's Sea Girt press. It was a bit of challenge to figure out dimensions at first but when you do its pretty simple. Only needed to order 5/8 - 24 tap and I had the lathe of course The only problem I ran in to is if I want a lightweight 125gr bullets in 30 cal I have to raise the ejection "extension" which won't allow the handle to return to upright position but it allows me to swage smaller cores. In the meantime I am using my RCE 6.5mm core swager to make cores and it works great, especially with tubing jackets where a .257 core won't fit anyway. ID is about .247 and my .210 swage cores work perfectly along with a .2475 punch I made.

Richard dies are top notch, I have not seen better dies. The problem is I don't think he makes them anymore or at least he is not interested in taking orders. I was able to buy his press and a set of 6.5mm dies he had in the inventory at the time but would not commit to making extra dies I wanted and that is very unfortunate.

To be blunt BTsniper ejection system sucks. I had it and got rid of it. I had to do a very delicate core seating setup in small 22 caliber so that I wouldn't have to bang on the die and make my bench jump and have stuff rolling off to the floor. Right now I have different dies and actually made my own eject system that's Rock Chucker specific. Its very simple but yet powerful to eject even stuck 30 cal projectiles which was no joke BTW. I made around 4-5k of .224 projectiles with it and it has proven to work well for me. The beauty of it is I made from scrap I had laying around. A piece of square tubing that I flattened on one end in the vice and drilled a hole in it. A piece of aluminum plate and a hole at the top drilled to hold square tubing "lever" that pushes on top of the die. I had plans to make a bit more sophisticated but it worked so well I didn't bother. The only thing I re-worked is took some thicker aluminum piece and machined half width to have the bar rest more centered. I also reinforced the square tubing with a piece of steel rod inside as it was starting to form a dent.

Richard ejection is great because it's automatic on return stroke and you have the leverage you need and I take it Dave's as well (I don't have Dave's press). Also Blackmon system from what I've in pictures appears to be solid too. To be honest I think Blackmon system while I haven't used one looks to be ideal for small calibers. (You get a larger opening between the ram and the punch. (This can be actually quite frustrating with my RCE press short 2.2" ram movement for certain non standard swage operations like re-sizing jackets. You basically have to screw/unscrew top die or punch each time). 2) You get real auto ejection system 3) You can place your jackets with the core in the "cup" like the God intended, rather then trying to hold on to it on the punch upside down while the jacket is greased up!

I am going to upload some pictures from the phone below.

[dimaprok]

The ejection system is held by set screws that originaly held priming arm.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[rolltide999]

Dimaprok,
Great work on the dies and ejector. I am impressed. You seem to have great knowledge of a variety of makers and dies. What calibers are you looking for in RCE. I have some duplicates. You can PM me.

Thanks for sharing.

[rolltide999]

The Sea Girt press is just as powerful as the WH or the WH50 when the later are in swaging mode. It is a great deal. The only drawback, which you discovered, is that the swaging stroke is short. The swaging stroke on all three is the same in power and length, but the WH has one longer stroke for reloading, and the WH50 has 2 longer strokes. As the strokes lengthen, the power decreases, but it is all relative. A weak stroke on a WH50 is probably still stronger than any reloading press. Sounds like you found a way to work around it.

[JohnForrest]

Where can I start reading to get the fundamentals for bullet swaging? Is there a best book?

[contendernut]

www.swagedies.com. Lots of info there

[rolltide999]

Where can I start reading to get the fundamentals for bullet swaging? Is there a best book?

"Discover Swaging" on Flea Bay. May have to wait for a decent price. Corbins (new) has digital bundle of a bunch of docs. I haven't looked at it. Like Contendernut says, the old Corbins site has a ton of info, it is just not well organized and will require persistence to wade through

[dimaprok]

Where can I start reading to get the fundamentals for bullet swaging? Is there a best book?

I do recall finding digital PDF book by David Corbin on swaging on his website, it has lots of information.

TATV made great videos on making 224 bullets, they are short, professional and to the point. https://youtu.be/4-vQpwgiHbA?si=BIIpXzSCcHM5wisS

One thing about swaged bullets from 22LR cases that I don't see mentioned is that a slow rifling twist barrel is a must. Even a 1:9 doesn't shoot nearly as well as my 1:12 and 1:14.

There is Corbin swaging video that has pretty good start to finish for 308 swaging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wENj2JIXMO4

I asked Richard about this video and he confirmed it was one of their employees back in the day and that he was pretty good.

[dimaprok]

Dimaprok,
Great work on the dies and ejector. I am impressed. You seem to have great knowledge of a variety of makers and dies. What calibers are you looking for in RCE. I have some duplicates. You can PM me.

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks. I'll send you PM about the dies. The dies I picked up from a member here who happens to be a very nice guy, somewhat local to me (1.5 hours away). I've been to his man cave a few times and its impressive. I am pretty sure (99%) that you got that die ejection tool from him There are no makings on these 224 dies but they have some resemblance to SAS dies. Also I completely forgot but there is discussion in another thread about making a 2 part die and I just remembered these dies are made from 2 parts! They thread on together and in the picture above I had to machine aluminum ring to make "extension" so the lead strands would eject below to clear the threads.