My homemade Golden powder!

[Sandro_ventania]

It should be mentioned that nitrocellulose powder has an auto-ignition temperature (ie, "cook off" temperature) in the neighborhood of 300 degrees Fahrenheit (~ 150 degrees Celcius).

Sandro's photo back in post #30 suggests that this temperature might be reached during preparation of Golden Powder -

well noted. I would make the GP, grind it very finely, like using an electric coffee grinder and then dissolve the smokeless gunpowder, based on nitrocellulose in acetone and add it to the ground GP, forming a mass that will harden when the acetone dries.

[dtknowles]

It should be mentioned that nitrocellulose powder has an auto-ignition temperature (ie, "cook off" temperature) in the neighborhood of 300 degrees Fahrenheit (~ 150 degrees Celcius).

Sandro's photo back in post #30 suggests that this temperature might be reached during preparation of Golden Powder -

Nope you can't add the Nitro before you cook it. It would have to be mixed with the golden powder after it is ground.

Tim

[Sandro_ventania]

Well I did my 1st cooking attempt on the Golden Powder - Looks more like Outhouse Residue Powder; it was pretty smelly too.

Attachment 322889

It never turned "Golden". It cooked like a bad batch of Brownies. Seemed to Immediately go to Brown then Black. Gummy and would not come off the Spatula.

After it cooled; I managed to scrape much of it off bottom of the old Stainless Steel fry pan I cooked it in using a 4 inch putty knife. Did same with the Spatula. Cleaning up the pan may be a challenge - starting with filling the pan with water and letting the spatula and pan sit overnight. I am going to let the residue I scraped out sit a few days then crush and screen through a Kitchen Strainer to get smaller particles. I have Low Expectations on this.

Mustang,
you're definitely over the top. When the water finishes drying, the dough is white, moments later it begins totake on a yellow, beige, light caramel color... a café au lait... that's the point. You take this sticky mass like melted cheese off the heat and keep stirring until it cools, where it starts to harden. If it didn't go through these phases, it went from white straight to black, then your ingredients are in trouble! try again!

[Sandro_ventania]

the reason the manufacturer wants those back is because so many of them blew up ---not the fault of the gun - but smokeless powder muzzleloader was always an idiotic idea there just too many fools out there ----savage makes good guns but this was probably the dumbest idea in the last hundred years of firearm development and for what? so some greedy dudes could go out and cheat in muzzleloader deer season.

there are many imbeciles or just ignorant people, who will carry smokeless powder with the same measure of BP... that's the problem! Imagine putting 100 grains of nitrocellulose behind a 500 grain projectile?!!! I don't think any modern rifle can handle this, imagine a muzzleloader!

[2TM101]

I don't have my Iron Oxide yet, but when I do I'm going to try and make Yellow Powder.

The reason Golden Powder is called that and not just called "Yellow Powder" is because actual Yellow Powderis nothing you want anywhere near a gun. Incidentally, Iron Oxide is not a component of it.

[2TM101]

The link with the patents indicate no heat or not to exceed 150 F

The mixed components are either dried at room temperature or at an elevated temperature as desired. If an elevated temperature is selected, it is important that the temperature be controlled to prevent the dried mixture from exceeding a temperature of approximately 175° F. (79° C.) at temperatures above about 184° (84° C.)since the ascorbic acid will undergo undesirable decomposition the products of which can produce a hazardous condition in the presence of the strong oxidizer, KNO3. During the drying process, when elevated temperatures are employed, a color change will occur and the dry mixture will take on a golden brown color. Care must be taken to avoid the formation of a deep red color in the mixture as that can be an indication that the constituents have either reacted due to an exclusively high temperature which should be avoided as previously described.

Note the "deep red color" does not mean the mixture has gone bad, but its getting ready to go REALLY bad. Also note, you CAN go over 175 when the water is still boiling off. but you have to be under that before the water is all gone. If you are making Crimson powder without constantly monitoring it with a thermometer its like going to the roulette wheel in Vegas and betting on green.

[dtknowles]

I dont see how this (nitro / GP) mix could be simpler than duplexing ??? but then I need glasses to see stuff .................................................. ..........................

Duplexing you have to measure or throw two separate charges. Premixing does add to powder making complexity. Save here lose there, tradeoff. Would be a bigger savings if you were making a lot of ammo or using a progressive press.

Tim

[dtknowles]

the reason the manufacturer wants those back is because so many of them blew up ---not the fault of the gun - but smokeless powder muzzleloader was always an idiotic idea there just too many fools out there ----savage makes good guns but this was probably the dumbest idea in the last hundred years of firearm development and for what? so some greedy dudes could go out and cheat in muzzleloader deer season.

We don't have a muzzleloader deer season we have a primitive rifle deer season that lets you use a single shot cartridge rifle if you want so I don't see how it would be cheating. I just think the idea of a muzzleloader that uses smokeless powder is cool. If they did not jack the price of shotgun shell primers through the roof....well.

Tim

[Jadkins87]

Great information Thanks for sharing..

God Bless

JDAS

[Hellgate]

Let's get back to golden powder.....

[Sandro_ventania]

I talked about the white powder, (nitrate and starch), no one commented... did you already know? Has anyone tried it?

[MUSTANG]

What kind of starch? Corn Starch? Traditional Laundry Starch? or....?

[elmacgyver0]

When I was a kid, my neighbor had an old single barrel shotgun in their basement with the name "White Powder Wonder" on the receiver.

[indian joe]

Let's get back to golden powder.....

yessir ! consider it done........................................

[Sandro_ventania]

What kind of starch? Corn Starch? Traditional Laundry Starch? or....?

it could be cornstarch... Maizena. I prefer Tapioca starch.

[dtknowles]

I think the key is to become smart about the chemistry. What are the good fuels, what are the good oxidizers, how do you combine them, what ones need a modifier to improve ignition and what additives jack up the performance. We don't know today what ingredients will be available in the future but we can learn how to prepare many different propellants for our uses.
Tim

[Sledgehammers_at_Dawn]

As information

https://patents.justia.com/patent/5557151


Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

Interesting read. Does that mean you aren’t supposed to make it, or not supposed to make it and sell it?

[MUSTANG]

Found this reference on making Golden Powder - No Cooking
https://pyrodata.com/PyroGuide/index...(Uncooked).htm

Golden Powder (Uncooked)

Golden Powder in general refers to a composition consisting primarily of potassium nitrate and ascorbic acid(vitamin C) cooked together to form a "golden powder". It is considered a black powder substitute. An uncooked version exists with a few additional chemicals.

Composition
The following weight percent composition has been prepared and found to provide optimum gas generating characteristics:

Potassium nitrate
64.3

Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C)
32.1

Charcoal
1.8

Iron oxide (red)
1.8

Method
If the starting materials have particle sizes less than about 150 microns, then the ingredients may be mixed together without the use of a ball mill. When the ingredients have been thoroughly mixed, and / or reduced in size, the resulting composition then has the capability of being used for propellant, without a cooking step. The composition will not have the desired properties if the following steps are not taken: Water, will next be added to the composition, although the addition of water is optional. The amount of water added need only be enough to moisten the composition. Experimentation has shown that the amount of water normally ranges from between about 0% and about 5%, of dry composition, with the optimum amount of water being about 1.5% of dry composition. Other materials may be used as a binder, for example vegetable starch, such as corn starch or ethyl cellulose, "binder" materials also assist in compacting the material. Too much moisture added to the mixture will not affect the firing of the subsequently dried composition, but will cause the composition to stick, the mixture may be formed into sheets by hand kneading techniques, without mechanical pressure, or it may be subjected to pressures of as much as 40,000 psi, or more. While the compaction and formation of sheets of the composition either by hand or by using a roll mill press apparatus. After drying the mixture it is then broken up and screened and separated to desired size.

[MUSTANG]

I think I'll give this one a trial; but it may be two weeks or so before I can get to-it.

[Sandro_ventania]

I think I'll give this one a trial; but it may be two weeks or so before I can get to-it.

Golden powder cooked less than ideal is already a clear difference. This raw mixture, I wouldn't even try. And I wouldn't use charcoal either, as one of the advantages of GP is cleaning. Mustang, try cooking it again... it's not difficult.