First time loading cast .44, looking for advice

[JubileeMarksman]

Hi all,
I've been handloading for 30 years now, but I've never loaded cast bullets in .44 before but I've recently acquired some unusual bullets. I have about 1500 or so out-of-production 260 grain hollow base, hollow point bullets and would like to make some use of them.

I have quite a few powders on hand that should be suitable but I can't find any loading data at all on a bullet of this style & weight. I've always loaded .44 with jacketed bullets, so other than knowing these will need to be loaded lighter to avoid leading, how would you proceed to work up a load?

I plan on punching paper, not hunting. Doing some bowling pin or silhouette would be interesting. I'm not really looking on a super hard hitting round, but I'm quite interested in accuracy.

My .44 Mag firearms I'd like to load for:

8-3/8" Ruger Super Redhawk
6" S&W 629
8-3/8" S&W 629
8" Anaconda
8-3/8" Taurus M44

Powders I have on hand that I suspect may be suitable:
H110
W296
Unique
Red dot
IMR 4227
Hodgdon Longshot

I'm not opposed to buying a different powder if there's something that would be magical with this bullet in .44 Mag.

With all this in mind, and I'll be using published load data as a guide as much as I can, but where would you start?

[G W Wade]

Unique would be great choice IMHO GW

[DougGuy]

Well, with cast boolits, normally they are sized a bit bigger than j-words, so if you have any pin gages that would be great, if not find a known good cast boolit and mic it, see how well it fits into all the cylinder throats. Try to avoid using calipers for your precision measurements, use a mic when you can and pin gages when you can.

Two issues to avoid with cast and cylinder throats, you wouldn't want to load a bunch of sized boolits and then they don't chamber because throats are tight and the boolits are sized larger than the throats, and the other thing keep in mind that cast boolits are often a softer alloy, like a good hunting boolit, so you may load a .431" or .432" boolit but if your throats are .429" then .429" is what will be presented to the bore. The cylinder often acts like a multi-port sizing die when throats are tight and boolits will exit the front of the cylinder at throat diameter.

In a prefect world, a revolver's boolits are .001" to .002" greater than groove diameter, and throats should be .0005" to .001" greater than boolit diameter.

Oh and welcome to the forum!

Adding also that H110/W296 should not be downloaded below the suggested starting weight, these two powders are the same, made in the same plant, one badged Winchester the other badged Hodgdon. They favor a high case density, keep them above 74%. These are best used for full power loads.

Unique is a great powder but don't try and make magnum power with Unique and a heavy boolit. You can run out of headroom and hit the pressure ceiling easy with a heavy for caliber boolit.

[Dutchman]

Hi all,
I've been handloading for 30 years now, but I've never loaded cast bullets in .44 before but I've recently acquired some unusual bullets. I have about 1500 or so out-of-production 260 grain hollow base, hollow point bullets and would like to make some use of them.

I have quite a few powders on hand that should be suitable but I can't find any loading data at all on a bullet of this style & weight. I've always loaded .44 with jacketed bullets, so other than knowing these will need to be loaded lighter to avoid leading, how would you proceed to work up a load?

I plan on punching paper, not hunting. Doing some bowling pin or silhouette would be interesting. I'm not really looking on a super hard hitting round, but I'm quite interested in accuracy.

My .44 Mag firearms I'd like to load for:

8-3/8" Ruger Super Redhawk
6" S&W 629
8-3/8" S&W 629
8" Anaconda
8-3/8" Taurus M44

Powders I have on hand that I suspect may be suitable:
H110
W296
Unique
Red dot
IMR 4227
Hodgdon Longshot

I'm not opposed to buying a different powder if there's something that would be magical with this bullet in .44 Mag.

With all this in mind, and I'll be using published load data as a guide as much as I can, but where would you start?

Without knowing the hardness of these cast bullets it would be wise to begin with much lower end load levels, akin to .44 Special. In that case Unique would be king, IMO, with Reddot coming in 2nd.

For full power .44 Magnum load levels H110 would be my choice.

You need to match your bullet diameter with the chamber throats to reduce the incidence of leading, especially at magnum power levels. Without a gas check you're guaranteed severe leading with an undersize bullet. My new Ruger flattop .44 Special chamber throats are all .431" which is what I size my cast bullets at. I also have a Model 29 but haven't shot it in so long I'm not sure what the cylinder throats are. I use pin gauges to determine throat size.

That particular bullet being hollow base seems to me suitable more for lower velocities where the hollow base pushes out to seal the bore upon firing. And given you don't know the hardness of these hollow base bullets that could be the recipe for really bad performance.

Load data for a 250 gr cast bullet at starting levels in .44 Special cases would work fine. A light charge of Unique would be a powder-puff load (women & children).

In my 50-sum years of handloading handguns, including .44 Magnum back in the early 70s, I rarely bought jacketed bullets. Cast bullets were within my youthful budget and allowed much more range time. Plus my 2nd gun book Elmer Keith's book Sixguns..... cast bullets ruled the day.

My first .44 Mag handgun: Great Western and it was a by-god handful of gun with full power .44 Mag loads. I bought 235 gr SWC and used H110 for a full fire-belching experience.

[TexRebel]

It sounds like you have a mold for a type of Minie Ball, which was designed for BP rifles.

[Larry Gibson]

Try 8.5 and 9.0 gr of Unique.

[Bazoo]

Hollow base bullets are not good for use with full power loads because the skirt can tear off and become lodged in the bore. I personally would not load them any hotter than a full pressure 44 special load, though i'd probably stick to a lighter charge even. Something on the order of 4.0 to 4.5 grains bullseye or in special cases. At one point hollow based bullets where thought to produce superior accuracy, but it wasn't conclusive. The lyman 429422 is the Keith version in HB, and would give you a decent place to start if you would like to have published data instead of going the total extrapolation route.

If you want to load them in magnum cases, to special pressures, you can do so easily of course, and 5.0 grains ofof bullseye in magnum cases will be close to the 4.0 grain charge in special cases due to the increase in case volume.

I'd like to some pictures of the bullets in question. I use postimages.org to upload pics here.
Welcome to the forum by the way!

[Thumbcocker]

I would try 6.5 of red dot. Standard disclaimers.

[racepres]

I would try 6.5 of red dot. Standard disclaimers.

This is where I am Also... Would like to see this Boolit to ensure suitability tho..

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

My personal preference for a hollow base boolit is Red Dot...I'd probably start around 5.5gr for a mild load and work up if desired. Larry's suggestion for Unique is also a good one.

[JubileeMarksman]

Hi guys, thanks for the feedback so far, and keep it coming!

Based on your feedback, I did some shopping for pin gages and ended up ordering .428"-.433" pin gages from MSC Direct (as well as the range from .355"-.360") that should be here by the end of the week or so.

Here's a pic of the bullets:


I don't have much .44 Special brass, I guess I'll start looking around for some of that too.

Heck, in this burning rate range, I also have a large quantity of V-V N320. Maybe that would be a decent powder for a light load with these bullets as well.

[Dutchman]

Hi guys, thanks for the feedback so far, and keep it coming!

Based on your feedback, I did some shopping for pin gages and ended up ordering .428"-.433" pin gages from MSC Direct (as well as the range from .355"-.360") that should be here by the end of the week or so.

Here's a pic of the bullets:


I don't have much .44 Special brass, I guess I'll start looking around for some of that too.

Heck, in this burning rate range, I also have a large quantity of V-V N320. Maybe that would be a decent powder for a light load with these bullets as well.

Those are swaged bullets, not cast bullets. That means they are SOFT lead. They also appear to lack a crimping groove. In a revolver that could result in the bullets walking out of the case and jamming the cylinder. Those bullets look better suited for a single shot, possibly black powder application.

Dutch

[gwpercle]

Going to be soft alloy . Swaged lead , No grease grooves , hollow base and hollow point ...
They appear to be rifle boolits to me .
If you crimp one in a 44 magnum ( or 44 special) case ... will the loaded round fit your revolver chambers ... they look like they will "load long" .

I'm with der Dutchman ... they look like a single shot black powder rife boolit !

I would also add some lube ... they look "dry"

Why couldn't you come up with some more convential 44 boolits ... I could be of help then ... but these things ... got me scratching my head !
Gary

[DougGuy]

Hi guys, thanks for the feedback so far, and keep it coming!

Based on your feedback, I did some shopping for pin gages and ended up ordering .428"-.433" pin gages from MSC Direct (as well as the range from .355"-.360") that should be here by the end of the week or so.

Did you order the half thou sizes? Full thousandth increments are a little coarse for revolver cylnders, you really do need the in between pins. But yeah you are going about it totally the right way!

[Larry Gibson]

Getting a better idea of what the bullets are I will defer to the suggested 6 - 6.5 gr of Red Dot or Bullseye. I would also give those a light coat of LLA and let thoroughly dry before loading. As mentioned, OAL may be a problem in some of your revolvers. If so then try them over 4 1/5 or 5 gr Red Dot in 44 SPL cases.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I think we need a micrometer reading on those. I’m almost thinking large-caliber air rifle pellets…

If those are actually meant for a handgun, I’d sell them to someone with a black powder 44 Russian. Way better application for that type of bullet. Even with lots of liquid alox, any decent pressure to generate a usable velocity is going to risk a lot of leading.

[JubileeMarksman]

I can feel a film lubricant of some kind, and from reading loading manuals (Lee in particular) I was under the impression that BP bullets had very generous lube grooves- my mistake I guess.

They measure 0.4317-0.4320 with my trusty Starrett micrometer over a handful of samples. I can push them with moderate finger pressure through the throat of the Ruger and Colt revolvers, but I cannot shove them through the Taurus or any of the S&W throats (no more than 0.0005-0.001 too large, probably workable as is without sizing) as far as diameter.

Well rats, I was hoping they would be workable. *sigh*, maybe I can peddle them at some shows or something. At least I have little to nothing invested in them.

Thanks for the help guys!

[Bazoo]

You can still load them in magnum cases by seating them deep and very lightly crimping in the side of the driving bearing surface just shy of the ogive. They probably have some kind of lube on them like the hornady swaged bullets do from your description. I'd try them as is and see how they do, and if they do not lead... I'd load them and plink with them.

[Forrest r]

Larry's spot on with his bullseye recommendation.

6.0 to 7.0gr of bullseye
6.0 to 6.5gr of clays

Either of those powders/loads and any 200gr to 260gr bullet will produce 1 1/2" or less 6-shot groups in a beater 629 @ 25yds.
[IMG][/IMG]

Nothing more than blammo ammo for range play