Small powder charges in Hornady LNL crushes case!

[Whistler]

I'm having trouble with my LNL AP presses. I have three powder measures including a benchrest measure that all show trouble when using small charges of N320 and N340 powder. When I go below 4.0 gn the resistance of the upstroke is so large from the measure that the case is crimped and destroyed.


If I increase the powder charge the problem disappears. I have tried graphite powder and dry lube spray, but it does not lessen the resistance. I have also tried seating the charge indicator on the benchrest measure further out, this did not help either.


The problem is most apparent when loading short cases like .44 Russian, .45 ACP, .38 Short Colt and 9x19mm.


The presses have serial numbers 00073 and 00146.
I am also using one of the measures on my Dillon XL650, the problem comes there as well.


My theory is that the kernels themselves get stuck between the charge hole in the measure and the measure's wall.


And, please!
I DO NOT want to hear "change powder", "change bullet" etc. These powders in these charges are required for the velocities and pressures I have worked up loads for.

[VHoward]

On the Dillon are you using the correct powder through expander insert in the powder die?
On the Hornady's are you using the pistol rotor in the measure? If you are using the rifle rotor for those low charges, then the rotor will bind up and no amount of lubrication will overcome it.

[runfiverun]

I'm not familiar with the LNL.
but if your crushing cases in the powder stage it has to be stopping somewhere along the way and the press is just mashing the case.

if it's like pointed out above then that's the problem.
if not something else is binding and locking up the powder dump.

[Whistler]

On the Dillon are you using the correct powder through expander insert in the powder die?

I expand with an M-die in station 2.
Powder measure is in station 3.
Seater in station 4.
Crimp in station 5. Just like on the LNL.

On the Hornady's are you using the pistol rotor in the measure? If you are using the rifle rotor for those low charges, then the rotor will bind up and no amount of lubrication will overcome it.

Tried pistol and rifle rotors. Also have the bench rest measure with micrometer for both pistol and rifle.
As I wrote, this occurs on three different measures.

[VHoward]

This sounds like an adjustment issue then.
Dillon video manual for the XL650: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O31...ist=WL&index=1
Some excellent videos for the Hornady LNL AP: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...9gIzfzEWzn10Hl The second or third video covers the powder measure and how to adjust it.

[Whistler]

Bear with me here... If adjusting for a larger throw will take away the problem, how can other adjustments be expected to have any effect on the low charge problem?

I have completely disassembled the three powder measures, cleaned them and reassembled with adjustments according to the instructions several times.

[ole 5 hole group]

You need to use the correct powder bushing and then adjust the bracket. I haven't watched the video but it might explain the procedure, which is really very simple and fast. I load several calibers on the LnL progressive from the 32 H&R to 30-06.

I use 2 powder measures, one for all handgun calibers and the other for longer rifle cartridges. One doesn't need two powder measures but it's just simpler and a time saver for me.

There's just a small learning curve and I'm sure you'll adapt very quickly, once you see exactly how it's done. Going from the 45ACP to the 454 takes under 5 minutes for the adjustments and that's an ole man's speed to boot.

I did find this U-tube video that just might be of some help to you. Run it up to about 7:20 and the adjustments are from 7:20 to about 10:50. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i17EZUFryVE

[Whistler]

I use my two LNL for 18 different cartridges and load about 10k rounds each year, and have done so for the last 8 years. I am familiar with the process of changing and adjusting the powder measures.

What I'm not familiar with is why a powder charge of a certain powder and size would lock the entire measure in a way that will crush/crimp the case.

[ole 5 hole group]

Well, I guess not being familiar with the LnL is not the problem then.

My powder of choice is Vihtavuori and I have loaded thousands and then some of 45 ACP using N310 mainly but occasionally N320 and for the heavy loads I prefer N350. I also like and use N340 in the 45 Colt.

I have never experienced a problem like you're currently experiencing and I've loaded from 3.8 to 4.3 grains of N310 in the 45 ACP with 185 grain wadcutters - the LnL powder measure throws those powder weights on the nose every time. Sorry I couldn't be of help but I'm still thinking it's a bushing length size problem??? Good Luck.

[Taterhead]

If I understand the situation, you are using the Hornady rotor-type powder measure. you have the pistol rotor installed. That is almost identical to the Uniflow that is on my progressive press. Something is obviously binding up. My guess is that the metering screw is the culprit.

Set the meter up for the suspect charge, but without powder. Looking down into the hopper from the top, watch as you hand activate the meter. It is possible that the disc on the metering screw is partly obstructing the rotation since it is turned way down into the metering cylinder. It is possible that the edges of the flat bottom of the screw is meeting the radiused drum at a tangent that causes a clearance issue.

A visual observation will confirm this.

[ReloaderFred]

I use the universal pistol powder bushing on my LnL and I don't have this problem with light charges. Are you using the universal or the caliber specific expander bushings? It may make a difference.

I load everything from .380 acp to .45 Colt on my LnL, with well over 100,000 rounds through my new one, which replaced the Pro-Jector I wore out and Hornady rebuilt for free.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[pmer]

This is the measure setup on my LNL AP. Its case activated and right here its pictured with the ram down.

I think this is what the OP has but I'm not sure. The inserts for rifle or pistol go in this part and it is what gets screwed into the press. What I do is run a case up to the top of the press stroke and adjust the height of the whole assembly at the die in this second picture. Adjust so there is a little free movement at the rotor while ensuring the entire charge gets dropped. I haven't had any crushed case troubles down to a couple grains of bullseye in a pistol rotor. For example if I'm loading 44 Magnum and want to switch to 44 Special, even though they are both 44 cal handgun cartridges, you would have to lower the powder measure at the press to attain proper rotor movement.

[Lloyd Smale]

I know you said you know the hornadys but just to check, Do you realize theres a small drum and and adjuster for lighter charges and a bigger drum and adjusters for the larger charges. Could be your charge of fine powder when using the larger drum and adjuster is allowing powder to creep between the body of the dispenser and the drum. I don't understand though why adjusting it for more would clear it up. Got to say ive been using them for about 10 years and use them with about every powder and have never ran into this. Like pm'r ive gone down to 2 grains of very fine powders like bullseye, aa2, vit 320 ect.

[Whistler]

I do not have this problem with N310, I've gone down as får as 2.8gn N310 without issue.

The measure does not bind when empty, it comes immediately when filled.

I have the older case activators with the diagonal return spring.

[OS OK]

Whistler…I too run an LNL but use the thru-powder-expansion bushing and expand/bell as LNL designed. I noticed you mention that you are expanding and belling in a Lyman M die in Stn. 2. Due to the different annealing/brass qualities of cases over the years…could you have softer cases that bell easier and thus have a smidge wider O.D. at the bell and that is causing them to hang in the powder dispensing station? The low powder amount being only coincidence? Sometimes I have to gently rock the press lever laterally to get a case to feed in the sizer die that hasn't enough flare at the bottom (different old die not designed for the auto type press) or touch one with my finger to 'slide her in'. I'm asking if that bell could be doing the hang up in this same manor under the powder drop station?
This is interesting…could you post some pics. of the crushed cases?

Just a side question here...Does that long spring offer more resistance to the assembly lift effort, mine uses the bar assy. with short spring? My slide assy. under the dispenser wore an oblong vertical in the lower assy. inside on the wall and would hang up on the down stroke, no amt of graphite would stop that…I had to turn the bottom slide a fraction of a turn so the powder assy. could slide more concentrically as it is off balance to start with which causes that wear. This aspect has nothing to do with the crushed cases to my knowledge just thought that you may have seen this in your high load count.

Charlie

[Lloyd Smale]

you never said whether your using the small adjuster and the drum made for that adjuster? You do realize you have to swap them out for smaller charges?

[mozeppa]

i too use to have the case ((( pop ))) off the powder thru die, scattering powder and my nerves all over the place!


i have 8 LNL powder measures.

all on a dillon 650

that being said, i 've always had trouble with the powder thru expanders.

so,
i've got nothing but time to do what i want... so i size, decap and expand with a lyman m die on another dillon 650.
(avoiding station 2 like a jinx) as i've noticed that the shell case tends to tip outward a tiny bit... causing case crush.

i took off my primer stations and don't use them as i prime after decap,sizing,expanding and cleaning....maybe that's why the case crush.

then when loading my case activated powder measures work great. no expanding is done on the load press so the cases slip over the powder thru
tip rather loose , activates the powder drop the on to the powder check station ...seat then crimp.

seems like it's a lot of extra work but it goes rather quickly.

[Whistler]

[...]I noticed you mention that you are expanding and belling in a Lyman M die in Stn. 2. Due to the different annealing/brass qualities of cases over the years…could you have softer cases that bell easier and thus have a smidge wider O.D. at the bell and that is causing them to hang in the powder dispensing station? The low powder amount being only coincidence?

The binding is the same when worked by hand. If I raise the charge to above ~4.0 gn the resistance disappears completely. Drop the charge down to ~3.5 gn and it takes both my hands to push the rotor up.

you never said whether your using the small adjuster and the drum made for that adjuster? You do realize you have to swap them out for smaller charges?

All my four measures (I have three with case activators and one for a RCBS stand for my single stage reloading) came with only one drum.

[VHoward]

Too bad you are in Sweden. I would be tempted to send the powder measure(s) to Hornady and tell them what is going on. I looks like you have a previous model of powder measure as yours does not look like either current model on Hornady's site.

Have you tried emailing Hornady?

[Whistler]

Twice. No replies.

They have helped me when parts have broken in the past, but that was a couple of years ago. Sent me the whole lower linkage assembly when the indexing pawls broke!