Just Say *NO* to OREO!

[dtknowles]

You're right Tim, I did not know there was quite that much aerospace work being sent elsewhere.

Throughout the '60's and much of the '70s I remember hearing the engines being tested up at the Rocketdyne Santa Susana Facility and remember when Boeing acquired Rocketdyne.

Knew there was a lot of work sent to other countries by Boeing; didn't know China was one of those.

I may have jumped the gun on the China assembly line, looks like the deal is not final.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...-china-412570/

The parties have apparently been in talks for a number of years, but it appears that a decision on whether to set up a completions and delivery centre for the 737 narrowbody in China could, finally, be close, according to sources.

[458mag]

I guess its ok if your into class warfare and taking those evil rich peoples money as punishment for being more succesful than you are

Obviously some here think the goobernent is the answer to all our problems and if they could only make laws of restriction conserning where a company our how a company operates all of our ills would be cured because after all they have such a GREAT track record of doing just that. My grand children and probably thiers will be paying on the debt this administration has burdened us all with. And yes unions have a great effect on the goobernent you get.

[Hannibal]

I believe Unions made significant contributions in our past. 40 hour work weeks, vacations, health care benefits, and equal employment opportunities are to name a few.

However, it is important to remember that the strength of a Labor Union lies solely in it's membership. Given the obvious predominate attitude of the citizenry of this nation today, I would NOT look for meaningful advancements in the form of Labor Unions in the near future. Just more of the racial and economic divide rhetoric from the last 20 years or so.

Stick a fork in it. Labor Unions are done.

[Lloyd Smale]

Companies do not pack up and move so they can make a few more dollars a year. They leave so that they can make a profit, instead showing a loss

if you believe that I have a bridge for you. Profit for the stock holders is why its done. Many companys that aren't in the black go overseas. Polaris just moved there profitable atv division to mexico. Layed off all the American workers that brought that company from a very small producer of snowmobiles that didn't even make there own motors to one of the biggest snowmobile and atv producers in the world. What thanks did they get? A pink slip. I had a buddy that worked for them for 16 years that lost his job. No unions to blame either. This sure as heck isn't the only example of this. GREED is what sends these companys overseas and nothing else.

Kind of odd that American car manufactures in the 50s and 60s pulled down all kinds of profit and made everything right here and yes had union workers. Now they move a lot of there manufacturing and purchasing overseas and still barely hold on and use the unions for a scapegoat for there shady business practices. Its nothing but poor and greedy business practices. But they sure have some fooled.

[Lloyd Smale]

You are no doubt right. Unions are dying a slow death. Part of the blame was there upper management greed just like big business. I think they saw the way big business operated and figured they wanted there piece of the pie too. Part of the blame for them dying lies in the gullibility of the average American person. Most non union workers made less and the envy thing kicked in and then those shady exects that wanted to put a smokescreen up to rape this country found ways to convince people that it wasn't them ripping them off while they took home 6 figure incomes and 6 figure bonuses. It was the union factory worker making 50k with half the benefits he had 20 years ago. Those non union crybabies wont admit to themselves that without those unions they too wouldn't be getting near the wage and have even close to as good work conditions as they have.

Ill tell you a big "I TOLD YOU SO" in 20 years if im still around. When there is no middle class left in this country. Either you will work to eke out a existence lifestyle or starve.. You wont be buying a home or a new car or a tv. Youll be buying a loaf of bread and some peanut butter and the rich and the government controlled by the rich will have total control of every aspect of your life. Look at what the workplace was like and pay scales were like before unions because that's just what your going to be back to. If you think all by yourself with no organization your going to have any bargaining power with your company your smoking crack.

I believe Unions made significant contributions in our past. 40 hour work weeks, vacations, health care benefits, and equal employment opportunities are to name a few.

However, it is important to remember that the strength of a Labor Union lies solely in it's membership. Given the obvious predominate attitude of the citizenry of this nation today, I would NOT look for meaningful advancements in the form of Labor Unions in the near future. Just more of the racial and economic divide rhetoric from the last 20 years or so.

Stick a fork in it. Labor Unions are done.

[jcwit]

Look at what the workplace was like and pay scales were like before unions because that's just what your going to be back to. If you think all by yourself with no organization your going to have any bargaining power with your company your smoking crack.

Not to sure about that. I never worked for a Union, ever.

But always made good money, at least enough to own new Corvette's, new Camaro's, own my own house, go thru the motorcycle craze, enjoy Deer hunting trips out west, month long vacations in Canada.

I've lived pretty darn good without the help of unions in anyway.

Course, I've always been in management too. Had an older brother who told me back in the 50's, it's always easier to tell someone else what to do, and you know what, he was right!

Now then back to Oreo's.

[dtknowles]

if you believe that I have a bridge for you. Profit for the stock holders is why its done. Many companys that aren't in the black go overseas. Polaris just moved there profitable atv division to mexico. Layed off all the American workers that brought that company from a very small producer of snowmobiles that didn't even make there own motors to one of the biggest snowmobile and atv producers in the world. What thanks did they get? A pink slip. I had a buddy that worked for them for 16 years that lost his job. No unions to blame either. This sure as heck isn't the only example of this. GREED is what sends these companys overseas and nothing else.

Kind of odd that American car manufactures in the 50s and 60s pulled down all kinds of profit and made everything right here and yes had union workers. Now they move a lot of there manufacturing and purchasing overseas and still barely hold on and use the unions for a scapegoat for there shady business practices. Its nothing but poor and greedy business practices. But they sure have some fooled.

They don't move for a few dollars, it cost millions to move so you either move to survive or the make many millions of dollars more. I you can make many millions of dollars more if you move you are obligated to the shareholders to do just that.

It was not Polaris's workers that grew the company it was the leadership that got the investment to expand their product line and build new products, the workers did not do that. The company hired new workers to build those products and trained them. If those workers are not competitive with Mexican workers (if the problem was taxes or regulation blame the government not the company), why do they think they deserve those jobs. Why aren't they at least thankful to the company for the years of work they did get and the training and skills they were taught. Why do workers think they own their jobs? The jobs belong to the Company Leaders, they created them.

If I invent a product, start a company, build a factory, buy some machines, and hire some workers. I make some money selling those products, pay wages, pay taxes, pay the bills. Then some one from Uganda makes me a offer for the whole thing, lots of money and I sell out. He moves the equipment to Uganda and sells the factory and lays off the staff. Did I do something wrong? I created some jobs for a while, paid taxes, trained some workers, they now have a job history for their resume, being the nice guy I am I probably paid them a severance bonus. Any reason those workers should have thought they had a job for life? I certainly did not tell them that.

Tim

[dtknowles]

A little background on why I feel the way I do about this issue. About 6 years ago I was laid off after 29 years with an aerospace company. I thought I would retire and did for a little while. One day I got a call from a guy I worked with in the past who knew about the layoff and the empty factory space where I used to work. He told me that he thought that the laid off workers and the empty factory space was a great opportunity and was starting a company to use that factory space and would I like to help him get it started. He explained his plan and I agreed to hire on (he was going to pay me and pay me well). We now have 20 or so employees and some contract labor. We are mostly hand to mouth. I lead our design teams, help with day to day products and help write new business proposals. I am one of 3 senior staff but we were all paid help and if the Owner sold the company all he owes us is our unused vacation. The workers did not make this company the Owner did, all the workers owe the Owner a debt for creating this opportunity for them. Even NASA should be grateful for the rent he pays for the space in their factory that is idle. The community should be grateful for the taxes and salaries he brings to the community. Workers in the surrounding area should be grateful for the upward wage pressure his hiring has generated.

Tim

[jcwit]

And that all sounds like a good thing.

[Firebricker]

Wow it only took three posts to turn a cookie thread to a anti-union thread. Seems odd nobody minds a ceo making 21 million a year but extremely resent a worker making 50k a year. The companys will eventually get rid of all unions then wages will really drop. Running that crew of 20 guys for minumum wage probably will not be much fun though. FB

[DCP]

Wow it only took three posts to turn a cookie thread to a anti-union thread. Seems odd nobody minds a ceo making 21 million a year but extremely resent a worker making 50k a year. The companys will eventually get rid of all unions then wages will really drop. Running that crew of 20 guys for minumum wage probably will not be much fun though. FB

This why it should be in the pit!
I saw it coming long ago.

[TXGunNut]

I allow myself two Oreos a day, when they run out I'll see if Wal-Mart carries Hydrox. If not it's probably time for a change anyway.
Headed out to do a bit of tractor shopping later, class I need seems to be manufactured exclusively overseas. Depressing.

[dtknowles]

Wow it only took three posts to turn a cookie thread to a anti-union thread. Seems odd nobody minds a ceo making 21 million a year but extremely resent a worker making 50k a year. The companys will eventually get rid of all unions then wages will really drop. Running that crew of 20 guys for minumum wage probably will not be much fun though. FB

There are reasons that a CEO can talk a company president into a $20M salary and why a worker has a hard time talking a CEO into a $50K salary and part of that is that the CEO can find workers for less than $50K. I know why I make what I make and why I got a call talk me into going back to work. These workers need to know what they are truly worth. Do you know what your market value is?

You might think that no CEO could be worth $20M, a CEO is worth whatever he can convince some Company President, Owner, or Board to pay him. Check out what happened to Pimco when Bill Goss left the company. I am anti-union, I think it is a crutch and an outdated one at that but unions are not all evil. A lazy Chief Operating Officer could just get a union to staff his factory but then you just get the rabble the union sends you. If you want good workers, you interview each worker and negotiate his pay and benefits on a one on one basis. The worker's loyalty is then to the person who hired them not to the union. Then if I think you are slacking I call you in and talk about what we said when I hired you. If you are union and I think you are slacking and I call you in you probably will want a union rep to be in on the discussion and blah, blah, blah, you will probably continue to be a slacker and if I try to fix the problem I get a grievance. In the end I end up paying a union worker more money and get less work and more grief. I have no commitment to union worker, if work load drops, I just tell the union I need less workers and if work increases I ask for more workers. If I have nonunion workers, I try to keep them on staff even when work slows, find other things they can do, can't do that with union workers. When I hire nonunion workers, I look for people with multiple skills and who don't like to be idle, workers who like a challenge and look forward to new and varied tasks. We are more of a custom house and don't really have a production line so my experiences are of that vein.

Tim

[bangerjim]

And they are sooooooooooooo fattening........yum! Part of the two main food groups: SUGAR and GREASE.

(This thread sure turned into a swamp real fast.)

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I never liked Oreos. There are much better cookies around. Now Twinkies, that is a whole different ball game. I am ready if the Zombies overrun the country. Me and woody, all the way to POP.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Funny. Maybe some of those illegal Mexicans that some people are so up tight over and hateful towards will run back to Mexico for those good paying 600 jobs. Sounds like a win win to me.

Maybe that kind of business deal is partly why AMERICA has 94 Million citizens on the welfare? Seems that if nabisco could make cookies at a profit last year, they just wanted to make much more money by making cheap cookies in mexico at the same time as they lay off the total AMERICAN workforce. WIN-WIN, huh?

And BTW those Mexicans are never going back.

BvT

[458mag]

I never liked Oreos. There are much better cookies around. Now Twinkies, that is a whole different ball game. I am ready if the Zombies overrun the country. Me and woody, all the way to POP.

Yep and I remember the twinky people asking the unio workers for help because they were in trouble money wise. I think it was a small cut in wages. But NOOOOO they wernt going to give up anything. Well they went bank rupt and all the employees lost there job Im sure because some union boss said they were just bluffing. Some, not all, union folks aint to bright.

[Lloyd Smale]

you tell me that if your company gave you a pink slip after 25 years, maybe 5 years short of retirement youd be thankful to them for the kindness they showed giving you a job just long enough to make you about unemployable! I think not!!! Polaris didn't do this to expand its line. they make the same atvs they made then. They did it because mexico is about slave labor and they can hire 3 Mexicans for the cost of employing one American. Like I said in previous posts. I sure hope you or your family isn't the next AMERICAN to be displaced by Mexican, Chinese or Korean workers. Yup those fine corporations deserve a pat on the back for doing it. Its attitudes like this that is not only allowing but applauding the destruction of our economy. As long as it doesn't effect me I could care less should be tattooed on some of you. Personaly I think its a travesty that any fellow American looses his job to a foreign soil, be he union or non union. Be he white colar or blue colar.

They don't move for a few dollars, it cost millions to move so you either move to survive or the make many millions of dollars more. I you can make many millions of dollars more if you move you are obligated to the shareholders to do just that.

It was not Polaris's workers that grew the company it was the leadership that got the investment to expand their product line and build new products, the workers did not do that. The company hired new workers to build those products and trained them. If those workers are not competitive with Mexican workers (if the problem was taxes or regulation blame the government not the company), why do they think they deserve those jobs. Why aren't they at least thankful to the company for the years of work they did get and the training and skills they were taught. Why do workers think they own their jobs? The jobs belong to the Company Leaders, they created them.

If I invent a product, start a company, build a factory, buy some machines, and hire some workers. I make some money selling those products, pay wages, pay taxes, pay the bills. Then some one from Uganda makes me a offer for the whole thing, lots of money and I sell out. He moves the equipment to Uganda and sells the factory and lays off the staff. Did I do something wrong? I created some jobs for a while, paid taxes, trained some workers, they now have a job history for their resume, being the nice guy I am I probably paid them a severance bonus. Any reason those workers should have thought they had a job for life? I certainly did not tell them that.

Tim

[shooterg]

I'm not against unions in private industry, but am of the opinion no public employees should be in 'em. I wish the regulations and tariffs were more favorable to companies staying here. And I do not know all the answers. But I ain't buying any more
Oreos !

[Lloyd Smale]

you have to understand that your dealing with closed minded people who grew in in households with daddy badmouthing unions and also understand that most of us here are republican and some think being republican demands a close minded opinion of everything around them that reflects the republican ticket.

Also understand that its much easier for these close minded individuals to hate then to try to understand and to admit to themselves that they have better lives themselves today because of the things unions won for them in hard fought battles. They put the blinders on and don't want to admit that there pay scale for a job that has both union an non union workplaces is as high as it is because non union shops have to compete with union shops or they just wont get quality workers. They don't want to admit that just about every safety measure in any workplace came from the unions fighting for them.

If they were REALLY HONEST most of the would admitt they hate unions because they just cant stand the fact that a union worker might make a buck an hour more then them. Theyd rather hate another middle class man making a buck an hour more then they do then hate a vice president that makes a 100 times more then them. Why? Because they don't have the BA**S to stand up to the vice president and your a lot easier and safer target. Ive got a group of friends that consist of union workers, non union workers, small business owners and even clergy. Funny thing is ive never seen one of them angry over what the other did or if he were union or not. It doesn't even come up. But it sure does here with a group of the same cry babies every time. Just sad and you wont change it. Its the same type of predudice that the blacks deal with. Its imbedded in there minds at an early age and there not going to admit its just wrong to hate.

Don't worry though firebriciker. Ive been around guys like this all my life. the good thing is they dont say it to a guys face anyway. They do it on fourms like this. They are the typical sheep that go to work and do like good little sheep do. They are petrified of the big bad wolf and wont stand up for themselves let alone stand up for someone else. Ive said enough here. It does no good. About like trying to talk sense at a klan meeting.

Wow it only took three posts to turn a cookie thread to a anti-union thread. Seems odd nobody minds a ceo making 21 million a year but extremely resent a worker making 50k a year. The companys will eventually get rid of all unions then wages will really drop. Running that crew of 20 guys for minumum wage probably will not be much fun though. FB