How to price out a sporterized Enfield?

[gkainz]

How does one get a valuation on a sporterized Enfield? Is there someone in the Denver area that knows Enfields and doesn't kick a guy out of the store for "ruining an antique"? Full disclosure - I didn't do it! It was that way when I got it! That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Perhaps some might recall that I posted photos a while back in this thread

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...but-what-is-it

where it did get some nice comments.

I'm simplifying, downsizing, standardizing on fewer calibers (and need some cash to cover a new 1911 that showed up in my safe before the CFO finds out I broke our agreement on "one old one goes before a new one comes home")

[funnyjim014]

The sporter job is very welldone but in the end is still a sporterized 303.very hard to put a price on it.

[KLR]

One method to figure out a value is to check Armslist and Gunbroker for similar rifles.
This is the nicest one I found on Gunbroker:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=468731320

[RustyReel]

Very nice rifle, no Bubba job on that one for certain. One piece stock, very well done. I agree with the two previous posters but it is difficult to find many "comps" for a rifle that nice. If you post it on an auction site please point us toward the listing. I know I can't afford it but I would like to watch the listing and see where it goes! Good luck.

[gkainz]

Thanks, guys. I'll ponder this for a bit longer. I have a friend that's really into older military rifles and just shakes his head at any modifications, so not much help there.

[BigEyeBob]

Wish you were on this side of the pond ,I would buy that rifle in a heartbeat.

Ive been lucky I've been able to sneak the last four purchases past the Missus , my gun safe is out of bounds to her as she is not a licensed gun owner
and is not allowed access to the safe by law. (good law actually).
Got my eye on another Enfield sporter , calling tomorrow to do the business,hopefully I wont be caught out by the Missus

Kev.

[RustyReel]

Thanks, guys. I'll ponder this for a bit longer. I have a friend that's really into older military rifles and just shakes his head at any modifications, so not much help there.

Those guys bug me. There are a whole lot more raggady originals out there that these guys think are somehow sacred then there are nicely done sporters like this one..........

[John Allen]

I can only say I have never seen an enfield go for the money they got into it. I watched a really nice one that was similar to the one posted and it brought $350.00 at auction.

[groovy mike]

It is worth exactly what you can get for it. In my opinion a sporterized enfield is worth less than half the value of an original. An all original #5 is a $500 gun. A sporterized version is a rifle suitable for riding behind the seat of a pick up truck for when you need one. Maybe $200 if it shoots well. Less if not. But beauty is in the eye of the buyer. You might find someone who loves the way this one looks and wants to pay more for the modifications than for an original.

[RustyReel]

GK, $200??? I'll do $200 plus shipping any time you want to part with it......$500 for a #5, not from me.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Typically what I have seen in my limited experiences with Enfield Sporters and Military Rifles in general is that the cheaper Parker Hale Sporters,,, which I have one for sure, and maybe two if my first one was actually made by them and not Bubba, run between $200-300 US for the Standard #4 and Deluxe #4 rifles. I paid $200 for my #4 Mk1, which would have been a Standard model, and $235 for my #4Mk1* which is the Deluxe version. These were the most common Sporterized Enfields out there and there was a lot of them modified to that configuration by Parker Hale. Basically Utility Class Generic Guns for use at the "common man level."

The one KLR posted looks like it will sell for $295.

Your rifle was done by some Custom Gunsmith and as such the value will be whatever the right person is willing to pay and really the only way to find that out is to put it up for auction.

The only problem I see with selling that gun is that white fore end cap! It makes the gun look amateurish and detracts immensely from the overall look of the gun, and more properly all the work that was put into the gun. Unless it is made from real Ivory I would spend some time or a few bucks and make it black just so I wouldn't drive potential buyers away before they see the rest of the fine work that was done to complete this gun. If it is Ivory I would remove it and sell it separately as it is probably worth more than the gun itself.

As far as a fair or final price ? Only the Market can decide that, as there will be no comparables to base a price on.

As much as I hate to say it, Enfield Sporters are not that popular, and as such they don't command higher prices. The higher values all seem to rest with high condition Military rifles, or Sporting Rifles made by the factories or bespoke versions by high end English gun makers that have put their names on the guns. Theses gun all have one thing in common and that is that they have some history attached to them, and that is what drives their value.

Mutts like the ones I have are going to be valued as shooters and as such will be lucky to break $300-400 no matter what is done to them.

My .02

Randy

[gkainz]

My friend who turns up his nose at sporters offered $200 and would run it thru the gun show to resell ...

However ... do I have a problem here with this rifle and reselling? Where is the serial number on Enfields? And a sale involving shipping would have to go thru a FFL, right?

Does any more detailed discussion need to go to PM?

[W.R.Buchanan]

The place where the serial number is normally placed on an Enfield, the side of the butt socket, has been removed from that gun. The maker should have put another serial number on it some where obvious.

As far as selling the gun You would have to ship it to an FFL. You don't have to ship from an FFL,,, however it might bring you peace of mind to do so.

Randy

[RogerDat]

If it is a nice looking accurate rifle in the 30 caliber family I would think it should be priced similar. The fact that it was made from what was originally a military style Enfield is interesting for conversation but does not seem to be relevant as a comparator. Groups are 1.5 inch at xxx yards and looks good, functions smooth who the heck really cares about the ancestry? Not horrible to "wreck" an original which for all we know might have had garbage for stock. Not wonderful that it is now lighter and more elegant looking.

Ask yourself is it worth as much or more than a black synthetic stock "value" or "budget" bolt action rifle of similar caliber? If it is significantly less accurate then it is worth less but one would hope that a good barrel was selected before putting all that work into it. If it is as accurate it certainly is nicer looking (without that white blob even more so). I would not sell it for $200 if it was mine and a accurate out to 200 yards. Don't forget the person offering you $200 is figuring to make a profit. If you know them well enough to trust them then maybe you can go halves on the profit over a minimum price at a gun show. Sort of a consignment arrangement. I would still set that minimum price based on the market for other wood stocked used bolt actions around 30 cal. but I'm not an authority.

[pietro]

The place where the serial number is normally placed on an Enfield, the side of the butt socket, has been removed from that gun. The maker should have put another serial number on it some where obvious.

The OP's rifle is a .303 British Pattern 1914 Enfield rifle, a 98 Mauser derivative , which didn't have a receiver socket like the .303 British Short Magazine Lee Enfield (SMLE) does, to receive the SMLE's 2-piece stock.

What will hurt the resale value of the OP's Enfield, besides the oddly-colored FE tip, is the chambering - the .303 is very popular in Canada and other British population centers, not so much in the US.

I would opine that the OP's rifle would be hard-pressed to bring more than $300, +/-, IOW: shooter value.

Since there's generally a butt to fit every seat, it could concievabley bring a bit more in a well-attended/online, guns-only, auction.


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[W.R.Buchanan]

pietro: Sorry,,, but the gun is indeed a modified #4 Mk1. Goto the link on his OP and look at the pictures. Pretty easy to see what it is from those pics.

I do agree with pretty much everything else you said.

Randy

[KLR]

Here's another data point: Today I was at a gun shop and looked at a sporterized 1917 Enfield. The metal was original, but the stock slimmed and refinished. The price tag was $389. It hadn't been reblued and I didn't look at the bore. Chambering was 30-06.

[BigEyeBob]

It is worth exactly what you can get for it. In my opinion a sporterized enfield is worth less than half the value of an original. An all original #5 is a $500 gun. A sporterized version is a rifle suitable for riding behind the seat of a pick up truck for when you need one. Maybe $200 if it shoots well. Less if not. But beauty is in the eye of the buyer. You might find someone who loves the way this one looks and wants to pay more for the modifications than for an original.

Not all Lee Enfields were military rifles some were made into sporters by BSA , Jeffery and Hollands to name a few .
Parts left over from the military production were used to build sporters for sale to the shooting public .
Much like the Martini Cadets , 60,000 were built as military training rifles for the Australian Govt , but many more were built as sporters and target rifles.
I have just acquired (today) a BSA factory custom built Lee Enfield on a Metford action with three leaf express sights and a five shot magazine .The magazine is not a 10shot box cut down but a purpose made 5 shot .


Thousands of Enfields were sold off cheaply after the war in Australia ,Canada and the UK , at one time they were the most popular rifle for sporting use in Australia.
They were cut down and used by professional shooters (kangaroo shooters) and the like.
As far as sporterising them goes I don't care much for the military pattern ,I lugged one around for five years when I was in the Army Reserves.
A 12 lb rifle soon gets to wiegh 20 lbs after a 30 mile hike through semi desert country ,I could have easily thrown that hunk of junk away many times.
There are plenty of preserved ones in the Australian War Memorial museum and thousands of others in original condition in other museums and private collections the world over.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a sporterised LeeEnfield or Martini Cadet . Some call it " Bubbaed "or some thing If the work is of a good standard I say its been improved.
So if you want to sporterise /improve your Enfield I say go for it ,you'll get a much more useful rifle from it.If you don't then that's ok as well.

Kev.

[pietro]

pietro: Sorry,,, but the gun is indeed a modified #4 Mk1. Goto the link on his OP and look at the pictures. Pretty easy to see what it is from those pics.

I do agree with pretty much everything else you said.

Randy

Thanks, Randy !

OP: I apologize for my error.

My bad - I clicked on the wrong link ( KLR's, post #3, above) to view what I thought was the rifle that the OP referred to.......

It is, indeed, a sporterized British SMLE.

DOH !


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[303Guy]

It is, indeed, a sporterized British SMLE.

Ummm ... actually, it's not an SMLE either, it's a No5, apparently. It has the lightened Knox Form and the hollowed bolt knob of the No5 but of course, that could have done to a No4. I can't tell from the photo's of the action body though.