Does anything else shoot like a 1911?

[Omega]

I find that my Browning Hi-Power shoots as well or better than my 1911's, has to do with the size of the gun, it has a fatter grip, fits my hand better.

I don't know about the fat grip part but my hi-power is a tack driver and almost brings itself back down on target. My Kimber shoots real nice, but I have to keep it under control, it tends to want to jump more than the hi-power. But we are talking 9mm vs .45 here, and .45 vs .44 mag; that alone accounts for some of the differences. I was just at the range with my recently acquired SBH and I have to say its a good thing it has some good grips and that it is a single action. I only fired it six times and had about a 10" spread at 6" high from POA at 50 Yards, I would not want to try shooting it as a double action even if it was capable. I think it all boils down to what you own and what you are better with, and of course what you practice more with.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I'll say something controversial, but it's honest.

I've committed a significant portion of my youth and middle age, and a great deal of income to becoming a half-way decent pistol shooter. I also wanted to gain some broad experience, so I bought double-action semi-autos, single-action semi-autos, DA revolvers, SA revolvers, and several to many brands of each of those types and calibers from 22LR to 460S&W. I probably own a couple hundred handguns at the moment. (I honestly have no idea...) Since I began qualifying through various LE agencies in 1989, I've never shot below 489/500, and have shot perfect scores several times. Not bragging, just wanted to say that so you know I've got a little experience and a little skill. There's plenty of people better than I, but I'd say I'm in the 90-95% range of good shots. That said, here's my take on handgun accuracy:

You have to be a pretty darn good shooter to tell the difference in accuracy between most pistols. I can pick up any handgun and shoot it pretty close to it's mechanical capability of being shot. Grip size and shape doesn't matter. You just adjust your grip to accommodate the shape. Sights suck? Don't matter; keep your focus on the front sight and concentrate on your trigger press. High bore axis? Yeah, it'll rock in your hand, but increase your isometric tension and recognize your follow-through's importance.

Once you get to the point that poor skills are not effecting accuracy, then you can worry about the various guns' characteristics (but at that point, you'll find those don't matter so much any more). So, why did I answer your post this way? Because if you're still talking about grips and sights and what model gun fits your hand, etc., you haven't improved your skills enough to worry about those characteristics. Handguns are the most difficult type of guns to shoot well, so people look for equipment-based changes to improve shooting them, when none of that makes any difference, compared to their skill.

I can take any modern, out-of-the-box handgun, and shoot it into a 3" bullseye at 50 ft. I was just issued a new Glock 21SF at work, and took it out to fire 100 rds through it to break it in and make sure the sights were on (of course they were). First 13 rd magazine was a ragged 1.5" hole at 7 yards (in 16-degree temperature and with 6" of snow just finishing falling on us - yeah it sucked, but it was still at the range, which is better than being in the office).

The marksmanship skills (stance, grip, sight picture, trigger control, follow-through) are completely transferrable and the shape of the grip, style of sights, type of trigger (bow vs. fulcrum), caliber of the gun, type of action (semi-, revolver, single-shot, whatever), mean very little.

Now, all that said, I will give my one experience with shockingly good accuracy. In the mid- to late-90s I found a Walther P88C for a great price (I think they were blowing them out because the P99 was coming), and bought one. Took it to the range with my handloads (124gr LRN and 4.5grs W231 in mixed cases), and proceeded to shoot a 1.75" x 2.0" 25 shot group at 25 yards, standing. I'll admit it surprised me, but I did it again and again with that pistol. That's when it dawned on me that my skills had outpaced the mechanical limits of accuracy of my other pistols. That Walther's lock-up was just better than the other brands I owned. It's still my most-accurate pistol. It is as accurate as my best revolvers.

And, that's the other thing I will say, which is a generality: Revolvers are generally always more accurate than auto-pistols. When I shot both my S&W686 and my Glock20 on the same day during qualifications, my scores were always slightly higher with the revolver. And, I'm a semi-auto guy, but the revolver is mechanically more accurate. In my opinion, it is because the barrel is fixed to the frame which is where your hand grips the gun. Therefore, you have more mechanical and control over the barrel and front sight via your skills, because of that fixed relationship.

Hope that helps. It's not meant as a criticism in any way. I just want to help people save money wasted on chasing some magical combination of grip or sights and look at the real need: skills. If you have skills, the other stuff doesn't matter. You are better off spending money on a good 22LR and a reasonable-quality revolver and shooting, and shooting, and shooting. Get a good instructor, if you're struggling.

[Springfield]

I shoot the most accurate with my k frame Smiths. Maybe because that is what I learned to shoot with, plus the PD experience as we had S&W '66's. The grip does make a difference for fast follow-up shots, but I gotta go with MakeMineA 10mm. Back when I drove an Armored truck, and was the rangemaster of our little 3 lane range, I used to shoot all kinds of stuff. My favorite thing to do was when I got some new to me gun, usually old Mil-Surp stuff, I would challenge the guys with all their new wonder nines, winner take the others gun. No one ever took me up on it as they knew better! Or there would be guys at the range, saying what a piece of **** their new gun was. I always took their gun and shot Way better than them. I kept telling them, focus on your basic skills, and PRACTICE, as I didn't want them shooting me instead of the bad guy. Slow timed fire is jsut not that difficult if you follow the accepted rules of proper shooting. I like my 1911's, my Hi-powers, my Smith and Ruger revolvers, and all the old and weird pistols I have accumulated over the years. One of the most accurate shooters I have is my Astra in 9mm largo. Also the ugliest gun I have. Or my *** looking Star PD, can't seem to miss with that. But I do have to concentrate on my hold as neither one comes easily. Practice is the key, but proper practice.

[LUBEDUDE]

I have a lot of pistols and revolvers as well. Trying to find one that shoots like a 1911 will lead to disappointments.

But if a gun were put to my head and I had to choose, I would have to say the Browning Hi-power.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I just shot night quals with my PD. All these young guys with their gun mounted lights and optics and trittium sights didn't give them a score better than my 1911 with iron sights. Most of the other guys shoot a -what are they called? Gluck? Glack?

[Bigslug]

All these lengthy answers. . .

I'll just stick with "No".

[GaryN]

I also like revolvers better from an accuracy standpoint. Some are better than others. I think you can also get a 1911 that is quite accurate but you might have to pay more for it. The 1911s are fun to shoot and from a self defense standpoint in my opinion they are better.

[JHeath]

. . . You have to be a pretty darn good shooter to tell the difference in accuracy between most pistols. I can pick up any handgun and shoot it pretty close to it's mechanical capability of being shot. Grip size and shape doesn't matter. You just adjust your grip to accommodate the shape. Sights suck? Don't matter; keep your focus on the front sight and concentrate on your trigger press. High bore axis? Yeah, it'll rock in your hand, but increase your isometric tension and recognize your follow-through's importance. . . .

. . . Once you get to the point that poor skills are not effecting accuracy, then you can worry about the various guns' characteristics (but at that point, you'll find those don't matter so much any more). So, why did I answer your post this way? Because if you're still talking about grips and sights and what model gun fits your hand, etc., you haven't improved your skills enough to worry about those characteristics. Handguns are the most difficult type of guns to shoot well, so people look for equipment-based changes to improve shooting them, when none of that makes any difference, compared to their skill. . .


. . . Hope that helps. It's not meant as a criticism in any way. I just want to help people save money wasted on chasing some magical combination of grip or sights and look at the real need: skills. If you have skills, the other stuff doesn't matter. You are better off spending money on a good 22LR and a reasonable-quality revolver and shooting, and shooting, and shooting. Get a good instructor, if you're struggling.

Amen. This is an high-quality comment on a forum where the average is far above average. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

I bought a used Hi Power with a typically mediocre trigger. Took it to the range and shot so-so with it, knowing that the limitations were mine, plus the pistol needed a trigger job. I chatted with a young range officer (former Marine buddy of my brother), and suggested he could probably do better. He picked it up, shot the center out of a target, handed it back and said, "You're right. That trigger is a bear, but it *will shoot*."

[DrCaveman]

Good comments, thanks. Spending money on new guns is not something i need to do right now, tempting as it always is. Im figuring to dump a rifle which gets shot very little for a new handgun, if at all...

I hear what is being said about handgun proficiency and the "magical gun" that will cure all accuracy problems

My intention is to work on handgun shooting skills with a tool that i know to work well for me. I will also practice with other guns that seem more difficult for me to shoot accurately, but at this stage of my handgun shooting development, i need the reinforcement provided by some shots hitting the center bull (when i expect them to) to maintain confidence.

What can i say, i like to do well at things. Intentionally making myself struggle when an easier, honest, repsectable solution exists seems masochistic.

Ill keep practicing with my 45 colt and super blackhawk; ill keep feeling good about myself and my shooting abilities by shooting my 1911. And ill save up for the ruger lightweight commander. Hopefully i get enough quality shots downrange in the next decade or so to be able to shoot all guns as well as 1911s

[Handloader109]

A bunch of great posts, and as I'm not that great a shot, I'll go practice more.
But Drcaveman, you posted you heard what was being said, but a couple of lines after you contradicted that statement. If you are equating practice with making yourself struggle, ten you heard,but didn't UNDERSTAND!

You've got the disease, the gotta have the new gun fever, the ruger is calling your name in the hope it will make you shoot better. The solution is not that commander. It is sending lead down the range

[MtGun44]

One of the reasons that the 1911 has endured for so long is superb ergonomics.
I find that the Browning HiPower is a reasonable approximation, but certainly
not the same.

The Ruger 22/45 is a redesigned .22 Standard Auto made to duplicate the grip
angle, and with the newest ones with the screw on grips, the grip size of the
1911. If you get the 5" bull barrel the balance is good, too. I have recommended
this as a trainer gun for several friends and all are pleased to shoot (formerly)
cheap and easy to find (darn it!) .22 LR in practice and then .45 for more
serious and expensive ammo training plus for self defense use.

Bill

[Char-Gar]

Handguns are a very personal thing, with most folks doing better with one type over another. This doesn't mean that one is more accurate than the other. It is just one fits the hands, eyes, muscles and nerve of a shooter better than another does.

There are many handguns out there, both revolvers and autoloaders that possess equal or better mechanical accuracy to the various 1911s. An accomplished handgun shooter can do well with any of them, but some require more attention and concentration than others.

[bob208]

the star model sa in 9mm largo. is almost a dead ringer for a 1911. in fact when I carry mine I use the same holster that was made for my 1911.

[Certaindeaf]

Everything shoots the same. Only the shooter can make them shoot the same though.

[1911KY]

HK USP Tactical .45 and HK P7M8 are as accurate for me as a 1911. The USP has the same ergonomics as a 1911, so they are going to feel similar in your hand. The P7M8 is whole different animal, but with it's fixed barrel it can really punch out an X ring.

[mattw]

For many years, in the 90's and early 2000's I shot IPSC and other forms of action pistol. I also shot 100 to 600 meter bench rifles at the same time. I was shooting around 800 rounds of 45 a week and still reloading on a Rock Chucker, loved the control it afforded. When I started shooting action pistol, the only 45 I could afford was a Norinco. It was very tight out of the box, I fitted it with a beaver tail, good sights, good trigger/sear, extended mag release and slide release. That darn gun would shoot! It was my first center fire semi-auto, had been shooting wheel guns for years at that point. I found that the trigger on the 1911 was something of a wonder to me. I could fire and barely release it and she was hot again!

I still have that old gun, but have added several 1911's to the mix and a few Witnesses, a couple of Astra A100's (love them), a couple of XDS's and a MegaStar. I find that I still default to the 1911. I do find that almost any of them are accurate, some of them are more accurate than I am but I have learned to really start to squeeze more out of them. Form and practice are what it takes, lots of rounds with good form and practice works even better. I would suggest a couple of hours of paid range time with a good instructor and then work on changes to muscle memory that may not be good for your form. I spent most evenings watching a favorite show and drawing and dry firing at a person on the tv. This helped holster work and muscle memory! I was lucky enough to work with Carter Jones on the range many times, I learned a lot from him. Now that dude could shoot and could shoot fast.

[Highway41]

I think it all depends on how comfortable any given handgun is for the shooter. As for me I love my STI Trojan 45 and it definitely is more accurate than I am. But... My go to pistol is my Springfield XD 45 service. It feels like it was made just for me. I am consistently more accurate at ranges out the occasional 50yd session with my XD than any other handgun I own. It boils down to finding what fits each of us individually as most all of the quality brands are inherently more accurate than the shooter. If God forbid I ever had to liquidate my collection the one I would not let go of would be my plain old XD 45 service.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

My Father (WWII Marine and on the Marine pistol team at Pearl Harbor in 45 before Pearl got attacked), taught me how to shoot a handgun with a S&W Model 10 he'd picked up during the war after his .45/1911 (not 1911A1) was hit by a Jap machine gun. It was a good revolver and well made and I was decent with it, but nothing special.

After I entered the service, I was issued a 1911A1 on very short notice while working on aircraft in a combat zone. I had an occasion to use that pistol and the skills my Father taught me to protect myself. That pistol, that I'd never had a chance to shoot at a target, somehow, beyond my understanding of any of it, because part of my hand, fitting perfectly and saving my rear end or I wouldn't be typing this. I drew it from it's holster and fired exactly three rounds that I counted in my head the way my Father taught me. It was all that was needed.

Since that time, I've owned a lot of handguns and shot a lot. My skills are to the point I can shoot just about anything and make it hit the target in a tight a group as the handgun will shoot. The point made earlier about focusing on the front sight and trigger squeeze is absolutely true.

Nevertheless, when and if I ever need a handgun for defense of my life in the most desperate of situations, it's a 1911 I want. Old, rebuilt a million times by the Army or new and just broke in, it's the handgun I know I can trust my life on when it's the most difficult to hit the target - when you're being shot at.

[40-82 hiker]

I've never had the money to buy and try many different handguns (understatement there). I had a Browning HI Power in the 70s, and then sold if to buy a Colt NM .45. Never looked back (but would love to still have it, if that makes any sense). I still have the Colt and shoot it as regularly as I can given my med. problems. I love the grip for my hand, and I am pleased with how well I shoot it. But, like I said I am not worldly in having shot many different handguns...

I'm working on a project now shooting a Colt Trooper MK III. It is quite a contrast for me, but I am going to enjoy learning to shoot it. As many have said in this thread, handgun skills do travel to different handguns fairly quickly if one shoots a lot, and is honest with himself about the results. And, I might add, takes one's time.

[DanOH]

S&W M&P.
Just spend 170.00 for an APEX flat face forward set trigger. Sez so right in the ad.
https://store.apextactical.com/WebDi...Details/191836