What equipment to avoid?

[RogerDat]

Well, I'll jump in where angels fear to tread, I guess. Using the $30 FA digital with success. Do I trust it completely? No, I check it regularly with check weights and a balance beam RCBS. Don't really use a scale much as most of my loading is for handgun with a Little Dandy. Love that thing, BTW. Anyway, used judiciously the digital does it for me. Devil take the hindmost.

Since you also have the RCBS beam scale you get the benefit of fast digital readout from your FA with a second tool for precision work and to double check. I was in the market for a single scale to meet all my scale needs.

Lead Fred I think the less than high opinion of Lee scale is widespread. Not universal perhaps but certainly recommended to avoid by many (at least to me). Thing I notice with equipment is often people cite a tool that has served them well for decades built in the 50's, 60's and 70's. That is certainly a good and valid reason to think highly of the product or company and recommend it. Not sure if it always applies to current product line. Lot of stuff built back in the day is much more robust than those same products today. Sometimes better design, sometimes not. Sometimes equal quality, sometimes cheaper materials or construction have crept in over time.

A used model with a good solid reputation, with knowledge of it's limitations can be a good price/value proposition.

[popper]

RCBS X die for 308 & the Lee FCD are your friends. You don't have to get the complete die set, pick what you want. Lyman PP uniformer tool with handle, their chamfer tool fits the same handle. PP cleaner tool is useless. Lyman universal decapper & M die ( you can change to a larger plug $5 when you start using cast). I haven't needed a case trimmer (yet) but that may depend on your rifle. Lemishine, Dawn & water for cleaning brass. 308 case gauge for setting & checking shoulder setback ( headspace). Some 4895 &/or Varget. The RCBS set will have stuff that will collect dust. Look up a baffle design for the powder measure & make it from cola can metal. I used the Hornady collet puller with success when I was loading jacketed.

[David2011]

Hawk,

Lots of good advice here among the sparring. You'll be guided by the cartridges you load and what you discover you need to accomplish that end. I loaded only pistol for many, many years and then started shooting centerfire rifles regularly. Rifle loading is more equipment intensive. As a result I've added a number of items that I never needed for pistol from Imperial Case Wax to a Lyman case prep station and case trimming tools. When it's time to purchase a specific tool you might post another question specifically researching that type of tool. Your volume of reloading will also dictate what you need. For example, case prep for 100 or even 500 military surplus 5.56 cases can be done with fairly basic tools but if you start prepping thousands you'll want faster tools. By the same token, if you shoot a big bore, heavy recoiling pistol you may only use 200-300 boolits per year so the sizing and lube needs are small and anything will suffice but if you shoot 500 rounds per month or more you will probably want a Star lubrisizer. You'll discover what you really need fast enough. AS a guideline, you might research what Sinclair International offers when you shop for tools. They've been around a long time and are now part of Brownell's. They don't carry anything that isn't the good stuff.

David

[Minerat]

I have Redding dies, Lee Dies, RCBS dies & Lyman dies, all work great for me. Be sure to spend the extra money for carbide dies for your pistols. I have 2, 44 mag and 50AE that are not carbide, BIGGG mistakes. I use a RCBS old style hand primer (one primer at a time) and digital scales.

I like RCBS as they have a no BS warranty. If something breaks or wears out call them and they will replace the part. I just returned a Sidewinder case cleaner drum that I got in the 80's because it had a flat spot on the rim and would not rotate. They replaced it no charge, just my shipping charge to get the old one to them. I was also luck when I started reloading and had a family member working for RCBS so got my initial setup for employee cost. Presses, tumbler, first 10 die sets, primer tray, loading block, scales, trimmer, powder measure, powder tickler, beam scale, analog calipers, and case prep tools. I even have an old piggy back progressive that bolts to my Rock Chucker press. You'll probably collect some junk too (Lyman electric powder trickle). Now I'm cost conscious so will buy other brand dies.

Reloading manuals, generic like the free manuals from the powder manufactures and available on the Internet are great resources and most specific manuals like Speer, Barnes et al, will give you data.

[rattletrap1970]

I've noticed that the design of dies change over time. I have some in which the decapper pin had to be removed from the bottom of the die, and not out the top (I have an RCBS carbide .30 carbine & .380 like this). I like the top removal much better. I have some Lee ones with the decapper in a collet (I get what they're trying to do, but I think they're a pain). Some of the seaters only come out from the bottom, don't like those either.

[kmrra]

Everyone has covered just about everything you need to know here read the reviews on anything that you buy , it helps alot , the Guys here are great about helping you , Dont know if anyone has mentioned this , but Reloading manuals? dont get just one you will find that the more the merrier , cant have enuff loading manuals

[Kilroy08]

In the avoid pile would be any of Lee's progressives or perfect looks like a powder measure but sure don't quack like a powder measure. I had a Loadmaster and the "Perfect" powder measure. Every 50 rounds I would have five to seven cartridges with missed, upside down, sideways, or half seated primers. In the process of this, the darn powder measure would dribble powder all over the place. Urinary incontinence would be a polite way of describing it.

Your mileage may vary:

The RCBS and CH4D press mounted primer pocket swagers. I've owned both and the CH4D seems to be the better one. However, I could never get a consistent result. I followed the instructions and sorted brass by head stamp, but I still ended up with the crimp not being fully ironed out.

I promptly put my primer pocket reamer in the chuck of my little South Bend 9A lathe and never looked back. There is a bit of a learning curve, but once you get the hang of it you can deal with crimped primer pockets faster than the next guy who has a Dillon Super Swage. (Just keep in mind that a nice South Bend 9A starts around $1200.00. Who am I kidding, we've all devolved into a bunch of man toy / gadget junkies here any way)

Speaking of crimped primer pockets... My Lee .223 Remington size die takes umbrage whenever I ask it to size and decap brass that has an intact crimped primer pocket. The decapping rod backs out at the slightest bit of trouble. This is just the nature of the beast regarding the way Lee designed the decap rod.

Dies:

Lee dies are great general purpose dies. As I mentioned before, crimped primer pockets cause Lee dies to not play nicely. When it comes to oddball or Easten Bloc calibers, Lee can be your savior. Everybody else wants to charge you over a hundred bucks for a die set? Well, Lee can be your hero for $29.99! A little facetious, but slightly true.

I also like Lee's crimp dies in all their forms.

My real preference is RCBS or, if you can afford it, Dillon. Having loaded with Lee, Hornady, Lyman, and RCBS dies, Dillon is considerably smoother and they're more robust in design.

Calipers and micrometers, a must have. Watch ebay for good prices on quality used tools. Look for Starrett, Mitutoyo, Brown & Sharpe, Helios, or Etalon. I lean towards Mitutoyo and Brown & Sharpe. The ones all the reloading companies sell with their names on them are either iffy quality Chinese made or, even worse, bashed out in some hut in India.

In conclusion, you did well with buying the Rockchucker. Having tinkered with my share of presses, when you're considering upgrading to progressives, spend your money once and be done with it.

By pure luck I happened across my Dillon 550 for dirt cheap on craigslist. After my fiasco with the Lee Loadmaster and seeing how well a very well used Dillon ran, I wouldn't flinch at paying for a new Dillon if I could do it over to begin with.

[MT Chambers]

My bench is both red and green, the Forster Co-ax and a Rockchucker, my dies are mostly Redding and Forster, RCBS, CH4D, powder measures are RCBS and LYMAN, measuring tools are mostly Starrett, I prime on the Co-ax.

[flashhole]

You started off right. RCBS is a fine outfit and stand behind their products. Customer Service is outstanding. Some others are equally as good. The one company I got burned by (twice) is Hornady. Worst customer service I've ever seen. No more Hornady equipment for me.

[Lloyd Smale]

hard question. they all make things I like and things I don't. Even lee makes good dies and there primer tool (at least the old one) has allways been my favorite. On the other end I love Dillon but think there primer tube filling machine is a total ***! For the most part I for smaller purchases I stick with rcbs and hornady

[mdi]

Anyone notice this thread is about 4 years old? If the OP hasn't found equipment he likes by now, he ain't gonna...

[No Blue]

Anyone notice this thread is about 4 years old? If the OP hasn't found equipment he likes by now, he ain't gonna...

Nobody cares when they can rant against whichever color they don't like!

[RugerFan]

Nobody cares when they can rant against whichever color they don't like!

And there's that wives tail again. Most people here give honest equipment reviews gained from their personal experience. If your experience differs, state your facts and carry on.

[mdi]

In 90% of threads where Lee equipment is mentioned, the Lee Haters come out. If you don't believe that, count threads about equipment and do the math. Personally I don't care what equipment experienced reloaders use, but it's a disservice to new reloaders to leave strongly bias opinions, which most of the time aren't factual...

Yes, the majority are good, honest, experienced members here on castboolits, but the "parrots" and those that cannot read instructions dump on threads here often...

[RugerFan]

In 90% of threads where Lee equipment is mentioned, the Lee Haters come out. If you don't believe that, count threads about equipment and do the math. Personally I don't care what equipment experienced reloaders use, but it's a disservice to new reloaders to leave strongly bias opinions, which most of the time aren't factual...

Yes, the majority are good, honest, experienced members here on castboolits, but the "parrots" and those that cannot read instructions dump on threads here often...

If there is a seemingly inordinate amount of negative reviews regarding one particular manufacturer, that should tell you something. I don't believe there is a concerted effort to "bash" Lee or anyone else. Take any given equipment review for what its worth and drive on.

[mdi]

All it tells me is that some misguided "theories" tend to take hold and circulate. Many, many newer forum members just parrot/repeat what they read (maybe it make them feel more of an "expert"). Unfortunately, if a forum "guru" (well known member with a huge post count) will say something and some will accept it, unquestionably as gospel and repeat it as often as possible. (ever hear "one drop of sweat fell into my casting pot and I was visited by the Tinsel Fairy with lead all over my bench"? )

I am familiar with "tool snobbery" and as was a Heavy Construction Equipment Mechanic/Electrician for a major west coast city water and power department (well paid personnel) I saw, first hand, tool snobbery at its best. Many purchased tools just because the price ("it's gotta be best 'cause it costs the most, right?"), many purchased tools because their favorite TV motorcycle builder or NASCAR pit crew used them. Some only purchased tools because of the name (if it's not Snap-On [or MAC, Proto, Williams, etc.] then it's junk). I have seen $8,000 tool chests, $50 screwdrivers, and $100 crescent wrenches (I have seen $$$$ tools purchased just to keep in the tool box and the mechanic kept a small box/tote tray of Craftsman tools to use that could get dirty). How well the tools worked was secondary. Yep tool snobs.

I see the same thing in forums when tools/equipment threads come up. "If it ain't RCBS (or Dillon, Sinclair, etc.) it's junk", and "that press ain't no good 'cause it don't cost as much as mine" (this is the most commonly applied to Lee products). Or suggestions like "Buy RCBS (insert any premium brand), and never look back" or "Buy once, cry once" inferring that if a tool isn't high priced it is no good.

Personally I don't care what tools/pressed a person uses, but a new reloader should get a much more unbiased view of tools/equipment available today. If I had been online when I started reloading (around 1969) I may not have gotten into reloading. My budget was quite small and I had to purchase tools that 1. worked and would last, and 2. that I could afford. If all I heard was how bad a certain tool company was, and the only way to reload was with RCBS (insert any $$$ tool), I would have prolly gone fishing. This is one of the reasons I object to Lee Bashing...

[jlchucker]

You can find all sorts of stuff you'll need, and pretty much everyone has put in their recomendations, most of which focus on presses, dies, etc. As others have mentioned, RCBS, Lyman, and Lee make several kits that will get you started. Or, you can tool up by buying various items peicemeal. If you do the latter, one thing to NOT "cheap out" on is a scale. I started my handloading experience around 1972, and I began by buying an RCBS kit and one set of dies--30-30. I still use those dies, and my go-to scale is still the RCBS Model 5-10 scale that the kit came with. RCBS and Lyman make good balance beam scales and will serve for decades if taken care of. A good scale is something you will use a lot, no matter what kind of stuff you will accumulate as time goes by. Weight in grains is key when it comes to powder charges and bullet (boolit) weight. You will depend a whole lot on a scale, so make it a good one right from the start.

[mdi]

No offence to jlchucker meant, but this is an example I mentioned that if the tool isn't expensive, it isn't any good. ( I am not defending Lee, but this is just an example). My first scale was a Lee Safety Scale. This scale is inexpensive, about $26.00, and is as accurate as any on the market (I tried the advertised "weighs piece of tissue 1/2 the size of a postage stamp" and it did. I have since compared the readings I got in a side by side test with newer purchased more "sophisticated" scales; RCBS 5-10, Lyman Ohaus D5, and 2 digital scales and they are exactly the same, but the digital are not quite as consistent as the beam scales.). So I can weigh powder on a $26.00 scale and get consistent, to less than .1 grain weights or I can weigh powder on my $70.00-$135.00 RCBS and get the same amount of powder in each case. So, it doesn't make sense for a new reloader to purchase a much more expensive scale unless he just wants to.(an aside, the Lee scale has a locking feature on it's poise, whis no other scale has. A good safety feature).

[Kenstone]

I have to consider the amount of equipment sold by any one company, as no company releases number of sales.
I believe the most bashed company sells the most equipment, and probably sells more than all the others combined.
And no one considers the reason or expectation of those who purchase reloading equipment.
The same reason there's a market for both Kia/BMW and good/bad reviews of both.
jmo

[RogerDat]

For any item you plan on purchasing approach it first by finding out what features or characteristics matter to people that already own that tool. In forums and reviews what features or uses people say are well supported or comment as being a shortcoming will allow you to accumulate a working knowledge of how and why people own the item or tool.

Then ask specific questions here about that tool or the relative merits of the choices you have narrowed it down to. Asking specifics will help avoid sprawling responses that go all over. Instead you will get information that is either a direct answer and even if the answer may not be what you asked about it will be related to the question and help you make a good choice.

Be aware people have bias, or perspectives. Some love what others hate, how they weigh the same facts is different, and that is when they can agree on the facts. Be aware if someone spent 2x as much on an item as most other models they are extremely unlikely to say I wasted all that "extra" money I spent. Their viewpoint can be skewed toward over valuation of the item because they convinced themself to buy it.

I don't like wasting money on cheap stuff that doesn't work, but I also don't like paying a bunch more for a tiny bit better product. I buy a lot of Lee stuff, much of it is as good or even better than more expensive offerings. Some fits in the category of good idea that does have limitations you might not expect, or the idea seems better than the execution or real world use proves it to be. Other stuff is slicker than snot on a glass door knob. I'll buy a $20 two cavity or $37 six cavity Lee mold without hesitation. But I'll also pay the $100 for an NOE mold to get a specific bullet and consider the extra cost to be money well spent on a quality mold. If a $110 press or $40 dies set will last the rest of my life and beyond, and work well for all that time I am certainly not going to pay twice as much on the off chance my great grand kids will use it. Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Redding all make good stuff & some stuff that costs 100% more for a 10% increase in some factor you will never notice.

The biggest aid to buying good is remembering two things. There is no shortcut to knowledge, ask me what I would buy and all you have learned is what I will buy, ask why one would pick x instead for y and do some reading and investigating and then you will have knowledge. You only get to spend the money once. Try to get good value for the money you spend.

I wash brass in bucket with a couple of spoonful of citric acid but I also like to polish it, at least once. My research showed this vibrating polisher at Cabela's to be the same as one offered direct from the US manufacturer, good reviews, reported good longevity, good price http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabel...Kit/731769.uts It took me at least a couple of weeks to figure out I wanted that one, and my reading had shown it goes on sale fairly regularly so then I waited for a sale. Did the same with a Remington cap & ball, picked model out based on reviews and articles (plus a couple of questions here) and waited for the next sale to buy it. Did have to hide the cash from dear wife to keep it from being spent but it was not that hard, and totally worth it.