simple Hi-Tek coating

[Silver-Silver]

How is the throat?

I clean my barrels often, but I don't admire them that often. I just realized Glocks have pretty awesome barrels. It is like a mirror inside, everything smooth and great. The M&P has nice ramped rifling, so I don't think the throat or rifling is causing my issues because on both barrels they look good.

The residue or fouling starts about half way down the barrel and gets worse the further you go to the muzzle. It seems to foul the groves bad and the lands not at all.

Everyone has been helping so much, I figured I had to do my part so I just got back from getting new Acetone from the store. I am willing to try anything. Fresh batch of Hi-Tek is in the works.

-Steve

[HI-TEK]

Picture attached.
Attachment 104811
The coating looks more brown in the picture than it does in person. For this batch I didn't pour out quick enough when still tumbling so they are a little rougher than normal. If I pour 20 seconds sooner they are quite even as the acetone has not all evaporated.

Bullet on your left is uncoated
#2 is coated but not cooked
#3 has 1 coat and cooked
#4 is coated 2nd time but not cooked
#5 is coated 2nd time and cooked
#6 in brass case is coated and cooked 3 times (different batch)

I haven't recovered any bullets because I shoot at an indoor range and can't recover my bullets.

From pictures, it seems to me, that coating has not been mixed enough, and, possibly over baked as it seems Brown and it should be much Blacker in tint.
After two coats baked, it should be Black and your colour after 3 coats is still Brown looking.
Where did you get the coating, and, how long ago did you buy?
Have you asked supplier for assistance?
I note, that you mentioned, that you cleaned out the barrel with Powder coated alloy.
That is not surprising at all.
It is quite possible that some Powder coatings contain quite abrasive components, so they would "polish" the bore.
Depending on alloy of bore, you would also be polishing away metal from your bore.
I dont know if that is such a good thing.
Also, you mentioned, that there is build up inside barrel.
Have you examined the residues?
Was it baked on coating or Lead deposits or both?

With regards to coating techniques, from what I can understand from your description, you seem to be tumbling far too long, with intent to "dry off" Acetone.
Is this correct?
If possible, please take photos of mixtures of coating Catalyst and solvent, straight after mixing well, then after say 15-20 seconds.
I would really like to see what happens.
After mixing, how long do you store catalysed mixture before coating?
The Black coating is possibly one of the easiest to use.
It is very strange results you are getting.

[Ausglock]

OK. that bullet is a royal Pain in the ****. I have had no luck with it in my guns. It has far too little bearing surface.
I have only had it work in low velocity 38 special loads. anything over about 700fps and it is inaccurate and leads. The coating and lead gets stripped off by the rifling.
Try a different bullet. I use the Lee 120Con and the 124RN. Their 158gn RNFP works fine.

[popper]

Don't WD after casting. It does help to WD after the bake for 9mm, 231 gives me better results than unique or WST in 9mm. I use the old dark green if you push it hard, you get leading at the muzzle end.

[Liberty'sSon]

I'm with Ausglock, try a different bullet.

[220]

WildcatBrass

Have you verified your oven temp, I know the breville is a top unit, I use one, but all manufacturers make the odd lemon, I would be verifying the oven temp matches the display readout its possible you aren't reaching the required temp to properly cure the coating.

[kweidner]

Wildcat. I fought the black on lower antimony stuff forever. Do you have a way to increase BHN? The alloy is too soft in my opinion. COWW is fine for 45 acp, .38 etc. I ran into the same problems and now run 92-6-2 exclusivley for 9 and 40. Get an ingot of superhard and add 2lb 4oz to 20# as well as 8oz tin. Your problems will go away. That little oven is awesome it really shines at the 5lb mark. Do 5lbs and 1tsp per 5lbs an the first coat and 1.5 tsp on the last 2. Black will work. Set it at 370 on cookie function, convection and frozen. As oven preheats set rack of boolits on top to pre-warm. That 5lb takes 12 minutes at 370 in both my ovens. (breville). If you need a chunk of superhard to try PM me.

[Ausglock]

The new Hardline 45 mold arrived today.

Stripped it and machined the side of the mold to allow a Lee sprue plate lever to be attached.
Wiped it down with paper towel and sprayed it with HI-TEK super 500 mold release. no de-greasing or washing etc etc.
Per-heated it on the small hotplate for 5 minutes.
First bullets out were keepers.
The results.









Now to decide If I Kryptonite Green them or Candy Apple them....

[jakec]

The new Hardline 45 mold arrived today.

Stripped it and machined the side of the mold to allow a Lee sprue plate lever to be attached.
Wiped it down with paper towel and sprayed it with HI-TEK super 500 mold release. no de-greasing or washing etc etc.
Per-heated it on the small hotplate for 5 minutes.
First bullets out were keepers.
The results.









Now to decide If I Kryptonite Green them or Candy Apple them....

dangit ausglock your gonna make me have to spend more money!! thats a sweet mold! i like the lee spru plate lever add too. ive got a mold or 2 im gonna do that to. thanks for the idea!

[Moonman]

Ausglock,

You didn't CLEAN the molds AT ALL, Just wiped down, 500 Sprayed, Hot Plate warm-up and GO????

[Ausglock]

No worries, Jake.
Was easy to do.
the centre for the hole in the sprue plate is 7mm in from the new machined mold side and 7mm from the mold body. hole is 1/4".

[Ausglock]

Ausglock,

You didn't CLEAN the molds AT ALL, Just wiped down, 500 Sprayed, Hot Plate warm-up and GO????

Yes sir.

[jakec]

No worries, Jake.
Was easy to do.
the centre for the hole in the sprue plate is 7mm in from the new machined mold side and 7mm from the mold body. hole is 1/4".

thank you sir.

[Silver-Silver]

From pictures, it seems to me, that coating has not been mixed enough, and, possibly over baked as it seems Brown and it should be much Blacker in tint.

The pictures show it as brown, but it isnt nearly as brown as they show. The coating is dark black with just a slight tint of almost gold and not brown as the pictures show.

Where did you get the coating, and, how long ago did you buy?

I purchased the coating from Donnie at Bayou. The coating is one of the first batches to come into the United States, so it is "old" but I have had issues since the first day. The un-mixed coating has always been stored in a climate controlled environment.

Have you examined the residues?
Was it baked on coating or Lead deposits or both?

I have examined it, the residue is thick dried coating, with no signs of lead mixed in

With regards to coating techniques, from what I can understand from your description, you seem to be tumbling far too long, with intent to "dry off" Acetone. Is this correct?

I am not trying to dry the bullets in my tumbling container. With the smaller batches I have been running (1 LB) the coating dries very quick in the somewhat large container 16 oz Cool Whip plastic container. When I do batches of 3 lb everything is much more forgiving, but that means more smelting of coated bullets for me. I am pouring when there is still wet mixture in the bottom of the mixing container.

If possible, please take photos of mixtures of coating Catalyst and solvent, straight after mixing well, then after say 15-20 seconds. I would really like to see what happens.

I use an opaque container to mix, I use syringes to measure the amounts and put them into a opaque container to dispense. If you think this could be the cause of my issues, let me know and I will buy a small glass jar. I am willing to try lots of things to get this to work.

After mixing, how long do you store catalysed mixture before coating?

I mix up only what I plan on using to coat 1 or two batches. I will keep the mixture overnight and use on the second day but no longer.

OK. that bullet is a royal Pain in the ****. Try a different bullet.

I cast up some of the Saeco RN 147 BB and they are getting coated as I type.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/140...ose-bevel-base

Don't WD after casting. It does help to WD after the bake for 9mm, 231 gives me better results than unique or WST in 9mm. I use the old dark green if you push it hard, you get leading at the muzzle end.

I had some 231 and gave it to a friend on the other side of the state. I will look for some again next time I am out. That is interesting about the WD after coating but not casting. For now I am placing the WD on hold and trying to get back to the basics. Lots of guys are having success without it so I am removing as many variables as I can.

Have you verified your oven temp

I have and found for the first coating is 10 deg F low while the second batch is right on. It takes some time for some reason. I have time/temperature graphs showing exactly what the oven is doing and how hot it gets but I don't think it would help to post them. I use a digital thermometer that I use with NOE molds to verify casting mold temperature.

I will post some pictures of the new bullets 147 grain when they are done. The first coat went on more even for some reason.

Thanks again everyone for the suggestions.
-Steve

[Wrbjr]

Ok... I have my oven ready finally. I would like some help in the mixtures... I plan on using 5-1-7 to start with and will do about 3lbs to start. Doing the green.

How does this portion out using teaspoons and such for 3 lbs?

[Moonman]

Wrbjr,

You can use teaspoons or gallon jugs, the ratios are what counts.
If you want 5-1-7 ratio, use 5 teaspoons Color, 1 teaspoon for Catalyst, 7 teaspoons Acetone.

I now generally use a 5/1/10 mix for the FIRST COAT to assure a VERY LIGHT FIRST COAT.
I put 3 pounds of projectiles into an 8 OUNCE COOL-WHIP CONTAINER,
add 1/4 teaspoon (1.2 ml) of mixed coating, swirl, I dry overnight, BAKE.

SECOND COAT I use a 5/1/7 ratio, and use 1/2 teaspoon (2.5 ml) of coating for 3 pounds.
Dry, Bake, Size.

I initially used 3 thermometers, 1 oven, 1 N.O.E. electronic (came with his mold),
my electronic Bar-B-Que, and the BREVILLE OVENS SETTING to check oven.

All read within 15 degrees or so. Breville SMART CONVECTION OVEN is nice.

Set your oven so it reaches the Catalyst set-off temp for sure, mine I set at 410 F as my garage
was colder, I may reduce that as Summer temps come.

DO NOT constantly CHANGE THE TEMP, Vary the TIME.

[Wrbjr]

Wrbjr,

You can use teaspoons or gallon jugs, the ratios are what counts.
If you want 5-1-7 ratio, use 5 teaspoons Color, 1 teaspoon for Catalyst, 7 teaspoons Acetone.

I now generally use a 5/1/10 mix for the FIRST COAT to assure a VERY LIGHT FIRST COAT.
I put 3 pounds of projectiles into an 8 OUNCE COOL-WHIP CONTAINER,
add 1/4 teaspoon (1.2 ml) of mixed coating, swirl, I dry overnight, BAKE.

SECOND COAT I use a 5/1/7 ratio, and use 1/2 teaspoon (2.5 ml) of coating for 3 pounds.
Dry, Bake, Size.

I initially used 3 thermometers, 1 oven, 1 N.O.E. electronic (came with his mold),
my electronic Bar-B-Que, and the BREVILLE OVENS SETTING to check oven.

All read within 15 degrees or so. Breville SMART CONVECTION OVEN is nice.

Set your oven so it reaches the Catalyst set-off temp for sure, mine I set at 410 F as my garage
was colder, I may reduce that as Summer temps come.

DO NOT constantly CHANGE THE TEMP, Vary the TIME.

I understand the ratios... I guess what I'm trying to figure out is how much of a batch to make so I don't have any go bad. Once it's mixed I just keep it in the plastic bottle.

I'll try your mix of 5-1-10. Then mix up up the second batch for the 5-1-7 ratio. So I will have two batches made up and label the plastic bottles.

Now about that cool whip container... does it have to be cleaned between different ratios/batches?

[BMac]

This is what I use to calculate my mix, this may be helpful for some, so I'll share.



https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx9...it?usp=sharing

Simple stuff, but it takes the guess work out of it.

-BMac

[Moonman]

Cool-Whip I have one for each color, If color starts to build up,
I clean with Acetone, or it will be adding too much color product
to the coating, especially the first coat.

I'm on a diet with A LOT OF FRUIT AND VEGGIES,
So I've been using DIET COOL-WHIP to accumulate the containers.

I mix in small (8 ounce) COKE bottles, Label/Date, and I only mix
enough to use in several days.

MIX/MIX/MIX-----SHAKE/SHAKE/SHAKE when your're making up the color.

Shake/Shake/Shake Coke bottle before using, and IF USING ONE OF THE METALLIC COLORS
such as RED-COPPER or GOLD, measure out for the COOL-WHIP bowl IMMEDIATELY,
so the metallic does not settle back out .

Keep a couple of BOOLITS in your color container to help mix, if they're not already
in the color container, especially with the METALLIC colors.

I have to cast some harder alloy as I'm going to start some 9 MM, with My NEW
HARDLINE INDUSTRIES IRON 4 CAVITY 115 GRAIN MOLD, AND A NOE 135 GRAIN
5 CAVITY THAT'S DUE TODAY.

[Moonman]

BMac,

Maybe you should add that formula chart to the DO'S AND DON'T'S HI-TEK thread.