simple Hi-Tek coating

[gunoil]

Can ya shoot hitek in ak? Anybody!

[farmerjim]

Can ya shoot hitek in ak? Anybody!

No problem shooting Hi-Tek in Alaska.

[Moonman]

BMac,

Nice looking set-up.

[Avenger442]

Guys one caution, when using brick/paver in the oven as a heat sink, make sure all of the moisture has been cooked out of the masonry before putting coated bullets in to cook. This brick/paver in the oven does help. I have a $5 convection oven from a yard sale that would not maintain a tight temperature range. Placed a solid brick in the bottom and it helped a lot. Only thing is it had been sitting outside for about five years and had absorbed a lot of moisture. Steamed up the whole room.
One other thing, all of the ovens I have seen have a small gap around the door. If you seal this it helps maintain temperature.

[BMac]

147 tc, 3 coats.

[Liberty'sSon]

147 tc, 3 coats.

Bmac, is that from the new Hardline Industries mold?

[BMac]

Liberty, yes it is a Hardline Industries mold. The mold is a thing of beauty, it closes like a bank vault. I've been casting frosties, because I think it coats better and and with the HT it doesn't show so....
I'm going to order the 125 rn in .357 tomorrow.

[Silver-Silver]

I need help. I have been trying different ratios, temperature, time and I can't get this coating to work how it is supposed to.

Oven is the Breville Smart Oven. Cooked on the middle rack with the convection fan turned on.
http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-smart-oven-r.html

Temperature was 190C, but I have increased it to 210C with no improvements
Time has moved from 8 to 13 minutes and everything in between.

Mix Ratio 5 parts color 1 part catalyst 7 parts acetone (Hi Tek liquid Black)
1ml of mixed coating per 1Lb of boolits. I have been doing batches of 1-3 pounds to not overload the oven

Mold is Lee 125 RNFP 125 grain traditional lube grove not micro groves. I have also used a saeco 147 round nose with the same terrible results.
Gun is a Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm Pro and a Glock 17 with factory barrel, both foul the barrel
Boolit is sized to .357 in a Lathesmith die on a Star Sizer, the glock slugs at .356 inches
Powder used is Unique at somewhere around 4.2 to 4.5 grains (I don't have my load data in front of me) OAL is 1.050 inches
Velocity is 1050 FPS on the M&P. Just slightly over minimum power factor for games this is a measured velocity not guess.
Alloy is Clip on Wheel Weights with Stick on weights removed. Water quenched when cast and quenched again on the last removal of the oven on coating #2. Measured hardness on a Cabine Tree gauge of the boolits is a Brinell hardness of between 10 and 11 after they are water quenched when they are coated. (just prior to being loaded up)

Every smash/acetone test is a Pass/Pass, however it always fouls the barrel within 50 rounds. One interesting thing I have found is the easiest way to clean the barrel is to run 100 powder coated bullets down the barrel and the fouling is gone and the barrel is clean again. I have read every post on this thread, and still can't get it to work. I have time/temperature graphs and have detailed notes on everything, but I always have bad fouling. By fouling I mean the coating is coming off the bullet and being deposited on the barrel. The NMP that HiTek Joe recommends removes it. This is not lead deposits or powder residue. I have only used these two guns for now, I don't want to have to clean all of my barrels trying to remove the residue.

Does anyone have any recommendations? I am determined to get good and clean barrels after shooting these things.

[Moonman]

WildcatBrass,

What firearm are we speaking of, What is the projectiles VELOCITY,
and What is the BORE or CYLINDER DIAMETER?

We aren't speaking of RIFLE PROJECTILES are we?

[BMac]

WildcatBrass,

What firearm are we speaking of, What is the projectiles VELOCITY,
and What is the BORE or CYLINDER DIAMETER?

We aren't speaking of RIFLE PROJECTILES are we?

I would also ask,
1) When you say fouling, are you meaning leading, or just residue from the coating/powder etc?
2 ) Have you slugged your barrel, if so what are is the size and do the outer wall of the projectile smooth like that touched in the grooves?
If you haven't slugged your barrel you really need to.
3) What is the projectile and mold you are using? and what are you sizing them to?
4) What is the barrel you are launching them from?
5) Is this an issue with all guns or one in particular?
6) Load data, all the details, powder, oal, crimp etc?
7) have you pulled a projectile to see if the seating / crimp damaged the coating?
8) Casting material, COWW, range scrap and etc...

As you've read, I have had a hard time with the coating while shooting a Wolf barrel and still have some small issue, but it works in my factory Glock barrel 100% and my Sig and my 1911s, so I feel your pain.

-BMac

[Silver-Silver]

WildcatBrass,

What firearm are we speaking of, What is the projectiles VELOCITY,
and What is the BORE or CYLINDER DIAMETER?

We aren't speaking of RIFLE PROJECTILES are we?

Moonman,
Excelent questions...
I am going to update the original post so it is all together

[Silver-Silver]

I would also ask,

-BMac

BMac,
I also answered some of your questions in the original post. I just think it will be easier to trouble shoot if all my info in in one spot rather than spread out over 100 pages. I did forget to mention, very slight crimp, almost non existent crimp (just remove the bell) crimp die is a Dillon. I have shot about 20K of cast boolits through the Glock and around 2K through the M&P with no issues when using Carnuba Red, I have casting and sizing down to a science. When I pull a bullet, there is no coating damage.

Thanks for the questions, It means you are thinking of the problem.

I have tried so many times, the only thing I can think of is the importer didn't mix up the batch well enough when they shipped it out in smaller batches. I am not saying this is the reason, just a guess because I feel like I have tried everything else. This Hi Tek coating is probably from the first batch imported into the US. It has always been keept in my climate controlled basement sealed up and a fresh batch is mixed every time I give the coating a new try.

Thanks,
Steve

[BMac]

I need help. I have been trying different ratios, temperature, time and I can't get this coating to work how it is supposed to.

Oven is the Breville Smart Oven. Cooked on the middle rack with the convection fan turned on.
http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-smart-oven-r.html

Temperature was 190C, but I have increased it to 210C with no improvements
Time has moved from 8 to 13 minutes and everything in between.

Mix Ratio 5 parts color 1 part catalyst 7 parts acetone (Hi Tek liquid Black)
1ml of mixed coating per 1Lb of boolits. I have been doing batches of 1-3 pounds to not overload the oven

Mold is Lee 125 RNFP 125 grain traditional lube grove not micro groves. I have also used a saeco 147 round nose with the same terrible results.
Gun is a Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm Pro and a Glock 17 with factory barrel, both foul the barrel
Boolit is sized to .357 in a Lathesmith die on a Star Sizer, the glock slugs at .356 inches
Powder used is Unique at somewhere around 4.2 to 4.5 grains (I don't have my load data in front of me) OAL is 1.050 inches
Velocity is 1050 FPS on the M&P. Just slightly over minimum power factor for games this is a measured velocity not guess.
Alloy is Clip on Wheel Weights with Stick on weights removed. Water quenched when cast and quenched again on the last removal of the oven on coating #2. Measured hardness on a Cabine Tree gauge of the boolits is a Brinell hardness of between 10 and 11 after they are water quenched when they are coated. (just prior to being loaded up)

Every smash/acetone test is a Pass/Pass, however it always fouls the barrel within 50 rounds. One interesting thing I have found is the easiest way to clean the barrel is to run 100 powder coated bullets down the barrel and the fouling is gone and the barrel is clean again. I have read every post on this thread, and still can't get it to work. I have time/temperature graphs and have detailed notes on everything, but I always have bad fouling. By fouling I mean the coating is coming off the bullet and being deposited on the barrel. The NMP that HiTek Joe recommends removes it. This is not lead deposits or powder residue. I have only used these two guns for now, I don't want to have to clean all of my barrels trying to remove the residue.

Does anyone have any recommendations? I am determined to get good and clean barrels after shooting these things.

1.050 is a little short for a 9mm? I typically go 1.12/3 with a lee, and 1.15 with a 147.
Also, you need to pull a bullet, maybe do 10 to see what the coating is doing under the brass, also check you diameter again to see if you are swaging the bullet down during seating / crimping.
I did have an issue where I am using a seating / crimp die (Hornady) and it was crimping while the seating was going on and it was scraping the coating.
NOW, I use a little JPW or pledge on my projectiles before seating and it works like a charm. I do a good bell of he case mouth, and a very light crimp to and od of .382.

Also, I use a metallic Red Copper, so I mix @ 5/1/9 and use 1ml (or less) per lb, I shake with the lid on for the first 15-20 seconds to get a good coat before the acetone starts to evaporate off and thicken.


BMac

[Ausglock]

Try it again without the quench at the end.
Also. make really really sure that the first coated bullets are left for long enough to "air dry" prior to baking.

EG: temp of bullets prior to coating = 17Deg C
Temp after coating = 15Deg C
Temp of coated bullets 1/2 hr after coating = 17Deg C
warm bullets before placing in pre-heated oven = 27Deg C

See how the coating cooled the bullets? This will cause coating fail due to moisture (not water) trapped between the bullet and the coating boiling off when baked.

[Silver-Silver]

1.050 is a little short for a 9mm? I typically go 1.12/3 with a lee, and 1.15 with a 147.
BMac

1.050 is the longest it can be to chamber in my CZ-75B. It is technically a 38 special bullet that works great in a 9mm if you search castboolits you will find lots of threads on using the mold for 9mm. It is crimped right at the end of the crimp grove on the boolit.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/916...ProductFinding

I just pulled 5 cartridges and the diameter of the bullet still looks good at .357, coating is intact. I seat on one die and crimp on another process. It is not the seat/crimp type of die. So you don't have to bell your case mouth as much try the Mr.Bullet Feeder expanding die, it works fantastic with cast boolits because it expands the case and bells the mouth.

I really really want to try Red Copper, but I promised myself I will not buy more until I can get this to work. Red Copper was not available in the US when I purchased my coating. Red Copper and the Hi Tek bullet mold lube are on my want/wish list.

-Steve

[Silver-Silver]

Try it again without the quench at the end.
Also. make really really sure that the first coated bullets are left for long enough to "air dry" prior to baking.

Trevor,
I just tried to water quench on this last batch, normally I don't water quench after coating. It does retain more hardness than not water quenching if anyone is having issues with boolits being too soft give it a try and do some experimenting.

I set the drying rack above a de-humidifier so warm dry air is flowing over the drying rack. It works great if anyone is having moisture problems. I am NOT getting any bubbles or signs of moisture/water/acetone trapped in the coating. The coating looks black as can be at 3 coats. When I do 2 coats it is not completely opaque but still covered.

I was just reading through your other thread on tips/suggestions and I forgot to mention I do have 2 bullets in the color and catalyst to help mixing. I feel like I have done everything right, with no shortcuts and I am still having issues. The humidity is at a controlled 50%, ambient air temperature is 70deg F

I have thought about using different Acetone after there was some concern of poor quality acetone. But the batches of coating pass the Smash/Acetone test. And I am not having any moisture related signs on the coating.

One more thing, the bullets are cast by me, with no oil from my hands/skin getting on the bullets. Casting is done hot to get frosty bullets and not sized prior to coating.

-Steve

[Love Life]

Wildcatbrass- How is your throat in the pistol? If it is sharp and abrupt it will shave the boolit as it fires. I use red copper and see the same thing in the 10mm using the RCBS 10mm-200-SWC with a rather abrupt shoulder. Using the NOE WFN I see nothing in the barrel but magic.

Have you recovered some boolits?

[Ausglock]

Recovered bullets photos would be good.
Have you fire bullets with 2 coats only?

[Silver-Silver]

Picture attached.

The coating looks more brown in the picture than it does in person. For this batch I didn't pour out quick enough when still tumbling so they are a little rougher than normal. If I pour 20 seconds sooner they are quite even as the acetone has not all evaporated.

Bullet on your left is uncoated
#2 is coated but not cooked
#3 has 1 coat and cooked
#4 is coated 2nd time but not cooked
#5 is coated 2nd time and cooked
#6 in brass case is coated and cooked 3 times (different batch)

I haven't recovered any bullets because I shoot at an indoor range and can't recover my bullets.

[Love Life]

How is the throat?