.223 input needed!

[waksupi]

An acquaintance believes the .223 is an adequate deer round. He used this link as a reference.

http://www.americanhunter.org/blogs/...-deer-hunting/

I will make no more personal comment upon the subject here at this time. Please give your practical input, and I will link him to this thread.

[krag35]

I have killed Mule Deer with my 223. Adequate, yes, preferred, NO.

[nhrifle]

I was once told by a very old LEO that anything that would kill a man will kill a deer. Ask anyone who has served in the US military during the last 50 years how the .223/5.56 does on enemy combatants. Will it kill a deer? Of course. However, I prefer to be a humane as possible, which means 85 grain or larger in .243 Win as an absolute minimum. When I go after deer, I just grab my 1903A3 Springfield in 30/06.

Sure the .223 will do the job, but it is far from adequate.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Depends on the hunter IMO. IF you are a capable person, who knows how, when, and where to shoot, it will kill a deer.
Should it be the choice to make if you have a better one? No

[Blacksmith]

Like many answered It depends. Short answer marginally adequate in selected loadings.

Will it kill a deer? Yes but so will a .22 rimfire and poachers have long used them. In at least one state the .22 magnum is a legal round.

Will it kill humanely and quickly? Very dependent on the skill and ethics of the hunter in shot placement and passing up shots that are marginal. In most loadings the .223 is on the low end of what is generally considered adequate.

In my state the game laws establish a minimum muzzle energy of 1,200 foot pounds for hunting deer and bear and the use of only ammunition of soft point (expanding) construction. If we look at a ballistics chart for .223 we see some loadings exceed this level and some don't. One of the referenced loads in the article only exceeds the minimum by 50 foot pounds.
http://www.ballistics101.com/223_remington.php

If we consider what the majority of experts think are minimum, adequate, and recommended calibers/loadings for humanely taking game of a particular size I think the .223 comes out on the low end of the list. Here is one expert opinion:
http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/...-game-calibers

So if that is your only option it will work with care and discretion. BUT there are much better choices than the .223.

[Bad Water Bill]

Many years ago I purchased a SAVAGE 99 in 22 Hi Power from a friend. Carl had used that rifle and his handloaded PB boolits to feed himself for many years.


Yes that gun in Carls hands in his location did kill northern Wisconsin deer with one shot TIME AFTER TIME. A follow up shot might bring the game warden.

Would I try it ABSOLUTELY NOT.

So yes a 223 can kill a deer but why not use something more practical. A 30-30 costs far less than an AR15 and has killed more deer year after year than any other caliber.

Just my .02

[Bob Krack]

There is a story about how a villager in Africa killed an elephant with a .22 short. ----- could be.

My choice is .30/30 power level or above. It is NOT about whether you can kill'm with a .223 - ya can kill'm with a sling shot. Ya can actually kill'm with a "Benjamin" air rifle in .17 caliber.

No yellow snow intended,

Bob

[dale2242]

Any 22 cal. center fire is legal for deer here in Oregon. That does not make it adequate in my mind.
Next we are going to hear how they can be killed with a head shot.
Head shots are very unethical. If you have seen deer with the jaw shot off you will know what I mean. They die a slow agonizing death. Not what we, as ethical hunters want.
Broadside shots to the heart, lung, liver area with gun with enough energy to drop them is needed.
The short answer. 223 is not enough gun for deer.....dale

[Blammer]

If your acquaintance believes it to be inadequate, make sure he doesn't use one.
Confidence is sometimes most of the battle.

[btroj]

Wait for the right shot and it will work. Use a 55 gr soft point and put it thru the lungs.

Watched my wife and daughter shoot deer sized animals in Africa with a 222 rem and nether went far.

Like others said, it will work but it is hardly ideal. Heck, I often shoot deer with a 45-70.

[41 mag fan]

Any 22 cal. center fire is legal for deer here in Oregon. That does not make it adequate in my mind.
Next we are going to hear how they can be killed with a head shot.
Head shots are very unethical. If you have seen deer with the jaw shot off you will know what I mean. They die a slow agonizing death. Not what we, as ethical hunters want.
Broadside shots to the heart, lung, liver area with gun with enough energy to drop them is needed.
The short answer. 223 is not enough gun for deer.....dale

You're pretty much right on with this. I shot the jaw off a little 6 pt buck once, back in '94 IIRC. Had no choice, he came charging at me, after i grazed his belly with the first slug. Had me shaking when he went down, he was kicking my feet as he was dying, so I put a hasty slug in his skull.
But a 22 can and will kill a deer, it just wont do alot of damage internally like a slug or bigger bullet would.
But so will #6 shot from a 12ga. Did that back in '90. Freak accident, hunting squirrels. Had a squirrel on a limb, just at eye level 15yrds from me, cutting a nut. There was a ditch inbetween us, I couldn't see from all the undergrowth. She popped her head up just as i pulled the trigger, she went down like a sack of rocks and didn't move. Very precarious predicament there, but i was laid off, no unemployment, so she didn't go to waste.

You go down to places like Tx where the deer are not behind game fences, they're only the size of a German Shephard, a 223 would adequately kill one that size.

[Larry Gibson]

Well over quite a number of years I've killed numerous deer and even elk with the .223.......in Oregon.......and found it quite "adequate" in the killing end using heart/lung shots and not "headshots". Some of those deer, including the very nice 4 point hanging on my wall, were taken on tags. Others, including the elk, were dispatched as an LEO. In some hunting scenarios (like hunting over bait from stands as in Texas) or in open terrain when the hunter can put the bullet in the boiler room from a reasonable range it is perfectly adequate for deer. However, for general hunting as in stalking/still hunting where shots are quick and many times not precisely placed it is a poor choice.

As already mentioned; it depends and the answer is not "cut and dried" as the OP may have wanted. BTW; my favorite big game cartridge is the 30-06 for deer and elk. However, having shot 3 deer in Texas from a stand (2 with the '06 - neck shots BTW) this fall I'll be using the '06 again only with cast bullets at 30-30 velocity and with the .35 Rem using the same cast 35-200-FN HP'd as used before. The wife may very well use a .223 though.

Larry Gibson

[Olevern]

I have loaded a .223 rifle for beginning hunters (8-11 years of age) to hunt deer with here in the Pa. northwoods with great success. However, that was with the excellent 60 grain nosler partition, I don't think I would want to do it with any other bullet.

The gun (a mini-mauser) and load were intended to get a slightly built, recoil shy boy out in the field until he was able to physically handle a more appropriate round. And I was prepared with a second firearm to back up the boys shot, although I never had to do so.

It is not a caliber I would choose for anyone who is able to handle something more suited, however, I don't know but that I may be limited to using it this coming season, as I need surgery on my rotator cuff and the docs are dragging their feet with two months between tests (MRI) and follow-up appointment with the surgeon to discuss the results (already saw the results online and with over one half the diameter of the ligament torn, clearly surgery is indicated). Seems like things are going south with our medical system and our private insurance (which was taken over by ObummerCare) and they want to delay or deny every sort of treatment to us older folk....we're not worth it, don't ya know....why don't you just go on and die. Never had a bit of trouble with my private insurance until Jan 1st, when some parts of ObummerCare kicked in.

Anyways, sorry for the unrelated rant, bottom line is if the season comes and I am unable to handle heavy recoil, my choices will be to go afield with the .223 or not hunt, and I can tell you where that will go.

[cbrick]

It would be at the very bottom of the list for me but I wonder how many people now think it's a fine deer caliber because after all, we have just learned that it can stop trains and bring down aircraft. Jesse told us so.

Rick

[Love Life]

It will do the trick, but there are much better options out there.

Experience: I have killed 6 deer with a .223 during cull hunts. I shot them in the head and usually within 100 yds. None ran away. I selected pull down green tips for my bullet of choice to ensure penetration through the skull.

ETA: Why are headshots unethical? I believe people incapable of putting a bullet where they want, and who take headshots, are unethical.

[gbrown]

I have a Contender carbine in 223 with a youth stock for my grandsons. When the oldest was 6 years old, he killed his first deer with it. 100 yd shot thru lungs/heart. Deer ran 30 yards, dropped dead. Nosler Balistic Tips. Killed several more with it over the years. My 10 year old grandson has not had that luck, yet. He carries it now. We have hunted the last 2 years without seeing one (when he was with me). It's not my gun of choice. 30-30 or 30-06 is my choice. The older grandson (19) uses his great-granddad's Win 70 Featherweight in 30-06 now. As others have said, I think it is a fine choice for a child. Just my 2 cents.

[429421Cowboy]

The .223 is a perfectly effective deer round, if placed right.

Used out of context, that statement might make you think i support the use of .223 as a general purpose deer rifle. But any perfect shot will kill a deer, after a friend was burned badly at work and could not handle centerfire recoil, i saw him shoot a large buck with a .17 HMR rifle, it only took one shot through the lungs and he died as fast as any deer. Lots of people kill deer with .22 lr or Magnums with head shots (legal in MT) but that doesn't make it a good idea. Yes, .223 is more powerful than and of those rimfire rounds, and placed right leaves deer just as dead. I however have seen enough deer go further than i like after being hit with a .243 to prefer it as a deer round, and even seen deer go pretty darn far after being marginally hit with a .270 or .30/06, which none of us thinks is too light for deer, i consider the .270 or .7mm/08 to be the ideal deer rounds. So yes, the .223 will kill deer 99 times stone dead, but once you get to no 100 and something goes haywire and you hit that deer in the wrong spot, I personally do not think the .223 packs enough extra heat to do the job with a bad hit.
Granted in Montana, we can't hunt until we are 12, so generally a .243 or 7mm/08 is a good fit, in states that allow kids to hunt sooner there may be need for it, but i personally would rather see a new hunter with MORE rather than LESS gun, since they might be inclined to make a bad shot than somebody more experinced.
I consider the .243 bare minimum for our deer, and prefer something larger.

[375RUGER]

The cartridge is adequate if the shooter can use it proficiently.
I experimented once, I shot a button buck during antlerless season with a 223 55g SP. 70 yds right into the boiler but that is as far as the bullet went (about 3-4" penetration)and it was just tiny pieces of schrapnel left. It was a sure shot and the only reason I pulled the trigger. My experiment was a success-I now know that I can bring down a small deer quickly with that load, but I don't use the 223 as first choice. I do think that the heavy partitions are a better choice for hunting deer size game with a 22 caliber rifle.
Even my wife who has very little experience hunting, when given the choice to use the 243 win(adequate with proper bullet and proper shot placement) or 7mm mag for her cow elk hunt, chose the 7.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thread subscribed to !
I have no practical experience to add, but I get into this conversation often with people who know my main hobby of guns and shooting...although they usually don't know my hunting experience is extremely limited. I can point them to those who have already answered this querry in this thread.

BTW, I do follow laws fairly closely. MN hunting laws did NOT use to allow the 223rem cartridge for Large Game (Deer), but recently (3 to 5 years ago) changed the wording of the law and now includes 223rem for Deer. I don't recall the exact wording, but know it now also includes 25acp
Jon

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

222 rem was a long time favorite in the area we hunt , something about Nordic people Finns , Norwegians and Swedes drawn to that round I never fully understood. but they were all to cheap to waste a round that didn't = a deer. not sure anything but a neck shot was ever used that's the shot they all favor wastes the least meat

so 223 that with the right loading is better than 222 should do , as long as the hunter does his part.

the 64gr power points or similar are recommended by a coworker who has taken deer with his 223