i managed to acquire this lot of swaging tools but can only determine what some of it is. i know i have a rcbs point form die and what i guess is a set of pearson dies but i can not find any other markings on them to identify the maker.
this swaging thing is new to me and i do not understand why i have so many pieces.
Last edited by oneokie; 05-10-2012 at 10:26 PM.
The only time you have too much fuel on board is when you're on fire.
"There are a lot of changes when it gets below -10 below F. in everything from ammo,gun, humidity, uncontrollable shaking and the strong urge to go home. "randyrat
Again fantastic find. I can only identify what I have seen before. Appears to be a full set of swage dies for 22 cal. and obviously an auto ejector. Maybe even some old SAS dies in there.
If you would like me to send you my dies (for loan) just for comparison let me know. But I bet some here can tell you what you have.
"Consequently we move away from other shooters to remain focused on our passion, as our ideas are quickly dismissed or misunderstood by others. Sharing does not come easily for swagers, not because they are necessarily selfish, but because they have been whittling away in their only little world for so long, that being able to relate to others what they understand is no simple task."
Mentor
what i would like to find is a press to go with them but i dont think i can afford it right now. i am looking into making my own since the punch holders seem to be for a h style press.
The only time you have too much fuel on board is when you're on fire.
"There are a lot of changes when it gets below -10 below F. in everything from ammo,gun, humidity, uncontrollable shaking and the strong urge to go home. "randyrat
I think someone here makes the adapter if you have one of those RCBS RCII presses, the one with the steel adapter on top for the 50BMG stuff. I seem to remember reading about it, but not all that certain as to where, here or another site.
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http://castboolits.gunloads.com/foru...php?117-Grumpa
This looks like older reloading press type dies, shouldn’t it work with a standard cast O type press with some possible adaptor pieces?Originally Posted by ratboy
Just fold copper on lead...
Ratboy,
It looks like you have a mixed bag of parts with 3 primary dies for making 22 cal jacked bullets. If I had to guess, you have a core swage die, a core seating die and a pointing die along with a handful of punches, punch holders, maybe a core mold and extraction system. All of this would have been used with a shortned/modified ram reloading press such as an RCBS Rockchucker.
My guess on the dies is that they were made by B&A (at least the two with the aluminum tops). My guess on the markings in the second picture is that the 22-4 indicates 22 cal with a 4 ogive.
In my opinion, since you are new at swaging, I would try to find someone that does swaging in your area that can help you with the setup, condition, and can provide you support. If you are not interested in making 22's with the dies, you may want consider selling them to someone on this forum.
Good Luck,
Martin
Your RCBS die should have a bottom portion which has the male interrupted thread to fit the top part with the bar across it. They should have a dab of nail polish or red paint as index marks to show you where to line them up before screwing them together. The RCBS dies were made to fit any beefed-up C press, like a Pacific Super, but are probably at their best in an A2 or Rockchucker press.
The SAS dies I have (which fit the Mity-Mite press) look like the ones in the middle of your first picture but do not have the "-22-" designations on the end. However, the three dies might fit into a holder that screws into a standard 7/8" x 14 press too.
The three that look like loading dies might be Hempstead or might even be Biehler and Astles. I think if the former, the bottoms should have "HEMP'S DIES" or some such identifier on them. I think Hemp made an ejector cradle like the one you have.
Some of those things look like Hollywood or maybe C-H shellholders for a loading press.
That big one with the lever--could you get a closeup of that one? Looks like maybe something for a paper patch slug or a picket ball(?)
Figuring out which punches fit which dies and which press the diemaker had in mind for the punches will take some time and research. Which of course is part of the fun. Did you get any paperwork with that stuff?
One of the chapters of one of Corbin's swaging books has a sort of history and field guide to swaging dies from the manufacturers of the day. You might check your stuff against the photos in there. I think the books can be downloaded from his site.
Congratulations--that is a haul!
"That big one with the lever--could you get a closeup of that one? Looks like maybe something for a paper patch slug or a picket ball(?)"
it is a core cutter. its quite well made. from my measurements it cuts 22 and 30 cores.
i need to get some wire. Utah Shooter fixed me up with some derimmed 22 to play with. if i get some wire i can try to make boolits. the RCBS point die is complete and works well. more measuring shows that i indeed have core swage die, core seat die and point dies. i have one that seems to be a jacket drawing die. i have more punches than i have dies. i will try comparing what i have to corbins website and see if i can figure out more. all the dies are a little crunchy but are cleaning up ok. there was no paperwork with them as those who sold them to me did not know what they were. i doubt they knew the man who had them and bought them at a estate sale. i found them on ebay by accident trawling thru auctions late one evening. i would like to use them to make boolits for my wasp and hornet.
if i can get the 22 thing figured out i hope to step up to 25 caliber for the savage.
getting to many irons in the fire.
Last edited by ratboy; 05-10-2012 at 09:57 PM.
The only time you have too much fuel on board is when you're on fire.
"There are a lot of changes when it gets below -10 below F. in everything from ammo,gun, humidity, uncontrollable shaking and the strong urge to go home. "randyrat
Did I send you the link of the gent I get it through? Here is a free plug. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?u=9124 Lafaun here on the site makes some pretty darn good wire. At a great price too. I can send you a bit of lead wire but do not have much myself. Need to get some more in my stock.
Last edited by Utah Shooter; 05-10-2012 at 10:07 PM.
"Consequently we move away from other shooters to remain focused on our passion, as our ideas are quickly dismissed or misunderstood by others. Sharing does not come easily for swagers, not because they are necessarily selfish, but because they have been whittling away in their only little world for so long, that being able to relate to others what they understand is no simple task."
Mentor
From the pictures it is hard for me to tell, but It looks like you might have some parts for a Hollywood or Universal press. The ram or platform on those presses have a large hole and the die or shell holder is held in place with a nut on the bottom. your first picture looks like there might be 3 or 4 parts that look very similar to some of my Hollywood parts. I know that Hollywood presses were very popular in the day with many of the old swage crowd.
"let's go. He ain't hittin' nothin'.".... "You IDIOT, he's hit everything he's aimed at!"
Ratboy,
Welcome to swaging and I am happy to hear that you intend on making some projectiles with this die set. I have to say that the process is not difficult but it will take you some time and effort to figure out everything but that is part of the challenge of becoming a swager and I might add part of the enjoyment. If you are like me, the first few bullets I made, I was so proud that I ran up to my wife and showed her. To say the least, I was more impressed with the small little pills than she was
I am a bit curious about your location. If I did things correctly (23 degrees 53 minutes north and 73 degrees 21 minutes west) you should be out about 100 miles south east of the Bahamas? Did I miss somthing or are you sitting on an island out in the atlantic?
Martin
Yeah I did that as well. Cannot remember where it put me. If memory serves me correct he is in Ohio. Hope you do not mind me saying that Ratboy!
"Consequently we move away from other shooters to remain focused on our passion, as our ideas are quickly dismissed or misunderstood by others. Sharing does not come easily for swagers, not because they are necessarily selfish, but because they have been whittling away in their only little world for so long, that being able to relate to others what they understand is no simple task."
Mentor
i wondered how long it would be before someone figured out i am lost in the Bermuda triangle.
The only time you have too much fuel on board is when you're on fire.
"There are a lot of changes when it gets below -10 below F. in everything from ammo,gun, humidity, uncontrollable shaking and the strong urge to go home. "randyrat
ratboy
"if i get some wire i can try to make boolits"
Send me your address, and I will send you a small sample to play with.
Lafaun
Just staying at home and playing with multi-color boolits.
i figured out what the unmarked dies are.
the dies are Biehler and Astles swage dies.
i sent a PM to dardascastbullets and soupcan to see if one of them still have a pdf of the instructions.
if someone else has a set, by all means send them my way.
i got some lead wire and have been playing with the rcbs point die.
this is fun
Last edited by ratboy; 05-23-2012 at 11:48 PM.
The only time you have too much fuel on board is when you're on fire.
"There are a lot of changes when it gets below -10 below F. in everything from ammo,gun, humidity, uncontrollable shaking and the strong urge to go home. "randyrat
Glad to see that you are playing around with the lead wire.
I got more if you need.
Lafaun
Just staying at home and playing with multi-color boolits.
ok. i made a ram for my rockchucker that allows me to use the hollywood style punch holders.
i have been playing with the dies a bit and have figured out i have quite the set.
i have a core swage die and seat die for both rimfire jackets and real jackets.
one die is for sizing the jackets and i have used it to derim the hulls but the instructions i have do not mention using it for that purpose.
i have however discovered a problem. i have tried in vain to use the point die. every time i try i get the boolit stuck in it so well the ejection punch goes right through it. i have been using lanolin for a lube. i have had success using the rcbs point die but not the b&a point die. does anyone have a suggestion as to what i may try to fix the stuck boolit problem?
i have tried cleaning the die and it feels smooth but maybe?
The only time you have too much fuel on board is when you're on fire.
"There are a lot of changes when it gets below -10 below F. in everything from ammo,gun, humidity, uncontrollable shaking and the strong urge to go home. "randyrat
If your lubing practice is OK and there is no damage to the internals of the point former, I would guess that you need to shorten your cores so the jacket comes together at the top. This sort of "hollow point" is the basic swaged bullet the ordinary die set produces. Even though it looks like a soft point of sorts can be made by letting the lead extrude forward of the jacket, this can get tricky. If you do this, your press technique and the lubing of the jacketed cores becomes much more critical because the wire punch, as you have experienced, can press down through the lead at the tip rather than ejecting the bullet. With the jacket metal almost closed up, the punch has something harder to push against and the force goes to eject rather than punch a hole through the bullet.
I always used Corbin die lube with entire satisfaction, although I have struggled with stuck points early on. Perseverance and practice is a big help too. Never tried pure lanolin or homemade lubes on this application. With the point forming die, lubing is critical: too little and the bullets stick, too much and they wrinkle around the ogive and tip.
The RCBS of course allows the pushing out of the bullet from the bottom, because you can take the point former off the top.
i have tried to make weights between 50 and 55 grain as to keep the core out of the very tip top. i tried taking a fresh jacket/core and very slowly working it into the die. i.e. swage and eject. every time turning the point die a half turn or so. i get about half the ogive formed before the force required to eject the boolit becomes great enough to cause the ejector to punch thru the boolit. the rcbs die has a 6 in it so i am assuming this means it is a 6 ogive. the b&a die is stamped simply 22-4. i am assuming it is a 4 ogive. since i cannot compare the two finished products it is all speculation on my part. maybe i should work on polishing the die some more?
i cannot theorize another reason to have this failure other than there is some roughness in the die that i cannot perceive. the dies were damp at some point and someone other than me did a good job of cleaning them up. i have found no evidence of corrosion inside any of the dies. i dont want to polish in excess. i have been using some barkeeps friend on a q-tip. perhaps this was not a wise choice?
the saga continues........
The only time you have too much fuel on board is when you're on fire.
"There are a lot of changes when it gets below -10 below F. in everything from ammo,gun, humidity, uncontrollable shaking and the strong urge to go home. "randyrat
yep. might as well shown them to the cat.Ratboy,
If you are like me, the first few bullets I made, I was so proud that I ran up to my wife and showed her. To say the least, I was more impressed with the small little pills than she was
Martin
these weigh 50 grains.
as the core is getting swaged out of the tip i am going to try reducing the weight to 45 grains. much experimentation is needed.
Last edited by ratboy; 05-26-2012 at 02:58 PM.
The only time you have too much fuel on board is when you're on fire.
"There are a lot of changes when it gets below -10 below F. in everything from ammo,gun, humidity, uncontrollable shaking and the strong urge to go home. "randyrat
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