0% AR15 lowers ???

[xfoxofshogo]

hello has some one mest with them ever on here ???

im tring to fine a good way to start one and like to rent or barow or buy a tap to tap the buffer tube

im going to trie this useing olny a drllpress and hand files and nuthing more lol

[arjacobson]

I have been looking at milling a few of these for the whole family. If you can find a deal on mutiple quantities I would be interested!!

[FLINTNFIRE]

http://www.rguns.net/other.shtml $20.00 each sold as paperweights dsarms had them for awhile, but I did not see them there recently here is a link to files for machining
http://www.arlower.ray-vin.com/disclaimer.htm have fun

[arjacobson]

THANKS much! Order is on the way. Been reading about doing these for some time. I plan on making one for each of my sons.

[xfoxofshogo]

ok its here ya now the fun starts

[justashooter]

i did a DSA forging years ago. lots of work with a 5 axis milling machine.

[perotter]

I did one years ago & it is a lot of work/time. I decided that 80% are cheaper, but they are getting a little expensive now. If I wasn't going to do an 80%, I'd do a bolt together.

[Dakine]

you want to be real careful about what you do, and what they (your sons) do in regards to making guns.

I've done an 80% build party and I turned out 2 of my own AR lowers and still have a 3rd that needs to be done. As far as I know, the reason so many people are into "80%'s" is that's the farthest the manufacturer can take it without ATF declaring it a "firearm" instead of a blank of metal. Anyone more versed in the specifics please feel free to correct me, but here's how I understand it...

1. Anyone who is legally able to OWN a firearm, may manufacture that firearm. So the 0-80% lowers are based on "if you're able to walk into mom & pop gunshoppe, and buy one off the rack following all of the federal and state laws, then you're allowed to MAKE that firearm yourself"

2. YOU have to MAKE it. In my case that consisted of me doing all of the prep work to lock the 80% blank into the jigs, secure the jigs into the CNC machine, and start the CNC program (I hit the big green button). I had to do all of that. There was someone from the machine shop watching making sure I did it right, makes sense, it's there tools and equipment being used.

3. At least in CA, there's no law that REQUIRES me to go DROS my new completed lowers. DROS = Dealer Registration of Sale. It's a $25 fee collected on the sale or private party transfer of any firearm and I do not know if the entire fee is coughed up to CA or if some of it is retained by the gun shop to cover their expense. Since they charge a separate fee for private party transfers in addition, I *think* the entire DROS fee goes to Kommiefornia, but I'm not positive.

4. The law requires a PROFESSIONAL MANUFACTURER to stamp a Serial Number, the city of origin, and the caliber(s) onto the receiver. As a private party, making it for myself which will not be SOLD, that does not apply. I do NOT HAVE TO DO THAT, unless I WANT to, in which case, it's an available service (at the build party I was at). I see no benefit to doing it, but I did see some guys with really cool logos they'd drawn up for their personal lowers, and that was sweet!

4a. I do not know the distinction in the law about SOLD vs TRANSFERRED in regards to giving to a family member. If it were me doing it, I would make it a boys day out, and take them with me to the build party and let them do the work and enjoy seeing the process done. I would STRONGLY recommend you look into those distinctions before you make and then distribute lowers, even to family. There's no point in giving BATFE a reason to take away everything you own over an unnecessary law in the first place.

that's the legalities as I understand them. Here are the numbers as I KNOW them.

It cost me and a buddy $90 each to buy a six pack of the 80% lowers from Tactical Machining. We got a price break by buying at least 5. That price also included the anodizing. Which at the build party they referred to as "vanilla" if they weren't. For whatever that changes I have no idea... and I've seen threads on DIY anodizing, and it looked super cool to actually set it up, but it also looked like it was completely a lot of time and money on the chemicals and doing it right instead of just solving the problem by throwing $10 more per lower at it and calling it a day.

The cost of the BP was $65 per lower machined (cash), at ours, there was no minimum of lowers you could bring and since my buddy and I also purchased a set of jigs, we were prepared to loan those to the machine shop in case they were needed but plenty of other folks also had them as well.

There was an option to some kind of acid etched engraving I think, which I mentioned in #4 and that was an additional $35 per lower. Your choice of what you wanted put on there and where. I didn't buy that service so I really don't know anymore specifics than what I just said.

The cost of doing an 80% build is actually MORE expensive than buying a stripped lower at the crossroads gun show, or even at a LGS.

X-roads in SoCal = JD Lower for $99 lower + $10ish tax + $25 DROS = $134
LGS = $129-149ish lower, + $11ish tax + 25 DROS = $165-185
80% build = $90 per anodized lower + $65 machine shop + possible tax and shipping from seller. = $155-???


Based on those very basic numbers, you're not saving money, you're spending more to do an 80 build. The benefit to having one that is legally off the books is completely up to you. Besides the cool factor of seeing it done, and doing it as a project with your family, that might really be worth any extra cost incurred.

Oh yeah, one more thing, there was a guy with several lowers to do from Daniels Defense I think it was, and those were super cool because it was a threaded set of holes for the bolt catch release, which is a real PITA to install that little roller tube from my limited experience, I've only put in a few LPK's and that was always my least favorite part of it! Also, there was a difference between "billet" and "forged" lowers that required different jigs be used in the CNC machines, I'll let someone with a lot more experience than me comment on why, and if there are any particularly important pro's and con's in that.

[220swiftfn]

Sorry, when I saw "0% lowers" I had visions of a load of soda cans being delivered to your door......


Dan

[blikseme300]

Cost is not the main consideration when doing your own lower receiver. 2 things matter to me: Exercising my RIGHTS and sense of accomplishment.

YMMV

Bliksem

[FrankG]

I bought a 'how to' DVD an a blank . Sold the blank , still have DVD . Need one ? lol lol !

[MBTcustom]

im going to trie this useing olny a drllpress and hand files and nuthing more lol

Umm, yeah let me know how that works out for ya!

[arjacobson]

My two oldest boys are pretty well versed on our shop. I figure I will make the first cut on MY forging and then the boys will set up each cut on their forgings.. Don't want to stir anything up with the batf just want to be able to say I machined my own lower. After looking at all the prints/info I think making it out of billet would actually be easier than using a forging with questionable tolerances.

[xfoxofshogo]

sorry i got side track the mill im tring to use still dose not have things i need so i have to fine them be for i can star i got a few holes done but thats it

[375RUGER]

here's a mill for sale. Designed just for diy machining lowers brand new, still on that pallet. It only needs a capacitor for the motor (capacitor froze in storage). It can be wired for 110 or 220. Location New Mexico

[jmorris]

A friend of mine had the fixture for completing an 80% lower that you could finish out with the tools you have. For 0%, even with aluminum, assuming you have an x/y table, results for using a drill press are quite sorry. Thats if you don't ruin your drill press. I like building stuff as much as the next guy but I generally use the project as an excuse to buy another tool. If all you have is a box of hammers an AK would be a better project.

[Harry O]

Good luck. There are fewer places offering partially completed lowers any more. Several of the places that were offering 80% machined forgings (I can think of three, offhand) were targeted by the BATF and shut down in previous years. At least two of them spent time in jail. At least one of the suppliers (and probably all of them, but I have not read that on the other two) had to hand over his order records and the people who had them were then chased down.

That's when 60% or 0% forgings became more popular. I have not heard of anyone with a 60% or 0% lower being targeted by the BATF, but I have not been following this very closely in recent years.

I have a South Bend metal lathe and a light duty mill and looked carefully at doing this. I decided the risk was more than the reward. It is safer to buy from a private owner in a face-to-face transaction if you want something that is off the books (provided you can still to that legally in your state).

[slim1836]

here's a mill for sale. Designed just for diy machining lowers brand new, still on that pallet. It only needs a capacitor for the motor (capacitor froze in storage). It can be wired for 110 or 220. Location New Mexico

It freezes in New Mexico?

[jmorris]

If it didn't you couldn't ski there.

[Ickisrulz]

Good luck. There are fewer places offering partially completed lowers any more. Several of the places that were offering 80% machined forgings (I can think of three, offhand) were targeted by the BATF and shut down in previous years. At least two of them spent time in jail. At least one of the suppliers (and probably all of them, but I have not read that on the other two) had to hand over his order records and the people who had them were then chased down.

Do you have a reference for this? I cannot find one. I also see 80 and 95% lowers still offered for sale:

http://www.americanspiritarms.com/lo...ower-receiver/

http://www.colfaxtactical.com/Products.html