Snyders JerkyWidenersMidSouth Shooters SupplyLee Precision
RepackboxLoad DataInline FabricationTitan Reloading
RotoMetals2 Reloading Everything
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 81 to 86 of 86

Thread: 500 S&W water test

  1. #81
    Boolit Bub reader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    37
    Here's the rest of the story. MacPherson saw this anomaly first with a 10.08mm SWC. Penetration went suddenly trough the gelatin block at 1065 fps, when it should have been approximately a third less. This made him to arrange a special test setup for the configuration. He fired 5.54mm steel SWCs in a sabot, in order to obtain higher velocities without any deformation. The transition area of this phenomenon began at 1065 fps in the first test and with the 5.56mm bullet it began at 1100-1500 fps. Data was erratic in the transition area and one bullet trajectory was sharply curved, others straight.

    He explains the theory: "The test results show that cylinders are stable in soft solid penetration at zero angle of attack because the trajectories are straight and the penetration dispersions are low. It logically follows that a symmetric bullet with a flat nose area that is "large enough" will also be stable at zero angle of attack, but may have smaller stability range than a cylinder." [...]

    "The drag force on the bullet is minimum only when the bullet is near the perfect alignment condition that has been described as zero angle of attack. The drag force on the bullet during penetration increases significantly as the angle of attack increases." [...]

    [...] "The existence of this stable angle of attack [non-zero] was verified by firing soft lead alloy 10.08mm semi-wadcutter bullets at velocities high enough to get some deformation (800 to 1100 ft/sec). The deformation on the shoulder of these semi-wadcutter bullets was obvious and clearly asymmetrical. These bullets had an angle of attack during penetration that was large enough for the bullet nose to shield part of the shoulder from the flow pressure." [...]

    "It is not clear why the zero angle of attack point is stable throughout the wound track for the 5.54mm semi-wadcutter configuration when the initial velocity is above 1500 ft/sec. It is also not clear why a non-zero angle of attack is stable for the 5.54mm semi-wadcutter configuration when the initial velocity is below 1100 ft/sec. The combination of these two scenarios is even less explicable. It seems probable that both orientations are stable over small ranges of angle of attack, but consistency of stable point selection depending on initial velocity is unexplained. The erratic penetration in the transition velocity region is not surprising."

    "It seems certain that the only stable angle of attack is non-zero for round nose, truncated cone, and 45° cone bullet configurations." [...] "The curved trajectories of these configurations are strong evidence of a stable non-zero angle of attack, but do not quantify the angle of attack contribution to drag. The angle of attack contribution to drag must be large to explain the otherwise mysterious low value of CDC [drag coefficient in the cavitation regime] for spheres (which cannot have any angle of attack effects)." [...]

    "Cylinders are stable at zero angle of attack. Bullet configurations with flat nose diameter near the caliber (e.g. Keith semi-wadcutters) are probably stable at zero angle of attack and the values of CDC can be modeled as cylinders with a diameter of the flat nose face." [...]

    --
    Difficult to estimate if the stability explains this phenomenon completely. Interestingly, 44man also used ultra-hard boolits.

  2. #82
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Akron, OH
    Posts
    811
    I am wondering if this threshhold velocity represents entering a supercavitation regime, dramatically lowering drag on the projectile.

  3. #83
    Banned

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    22,705
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxEnergy View Post
    somewhere else you posted 7 deer -- a small sample
    How many do I have to track over 200 yards or lose?
    One is too many in my opinion. Deer are not test subjects and when something is not right, we have to quit right away.
    My mistake, I seen poor results on the first deer. It was up to me to fix it but I kept trying, thinking it was just the hit position. Not so, all good right behind the shoulder, double lung hits. Opening the deer showed a nice clean hole through both lungs. Nice pink lungs with no trauma.
    Yeah, I know shoot shoulders or spines but I get deer on the ground in 20 yards with arrows at those spots.

  4. #84
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    St. Charles, MO
    Posts
    2,096
    Quote Originally Posted by reader View Post
    Data was erratic in the transition area and one bullet trajectory was sharply curved, others straight.
    Ok, I'm buying the book from Amazon. And oddly, there was a copy of Sixguns by Keith in stock for under a gazillion dollars that I picked up too. Ironic.

    One of my local libraries had Sixguns and I had checked it out. People had cut pictures out of it so some of the text from the other side was missing. I will finally be able to read ALL of it!

  5. #85
    Boolit Bub reader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Mike Golf View Post
    I am wondering if this threshhold velocity represents entering a supercavitation regime, dramatically lowering drag on the projectile.
    Probably it is. The projectile would remain inside the cavitation bubble. The sharp edge seems important.

    Here are few examples:
    http://www.grosswildjagd.de/penetrat.htm
    http://www.gsgroup.co.za/articlepvdw.html

    It is interesting that MacPherson's 5.54mm SWC remained stable when the velocity slowed down to zero, assuming supercavitation.

  6. #86
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Akron, OH
    Posts
    811
    Interesting links, reader. Thanks!

    So, it would seem that knowing the velocity for supercavitation would be really useful.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check