45-70 round ball

[nanuk]

has anyone tried a 3 ball load?

I'm thinking about a whitetail deer load here

[tacklebury]

Tried 3 ball and didn't like them. Without using some kind of wad or filler, you cannot keep the bottom balls in line. The .45-70 is actually a slightly tapered case. You'd have to use some kind of fiber wad etc. to keep the bottom ones off the powder. I tried 3 or 4 and had poor accuracy even at 25 yards. I had considered trying some .410 wads or something but haven't gotten there as of yet.

[1Shirt]

I have shot 3 ball loads in both 45-70 and 444 with a degree of sucess at 25 yds. Can't recall the charges, but believe it was unique in both cases, and I did use a thin heavy paper wad over the powder. Balls were oversized for bore, run thru sizer for a little bit of a band, lubed all over with LLA, top ball seated half way out as shown in some of the pics on this thread. All loads stayed on paper at 25, and most were about 3-5" groups for the three balls. Don't know what good they would be other than maybe for fox/yote in the hen house routine. However, they were fun to load and shoot at the time.
1Shirt!

[mroliver77]

I have shot RB in 45-70, 30-30 and .223. For 1000fps loads very little lube is needed. Alox, JPW even a little vasaline or other slippery stuff dobbed on the loaded ball work. Balls are very light for caliber and if fitted well give plenty of traction to spin the ball.
Shooting the .313 ball in 30-30 it penetrated 6" of sears catalog at 700ish fps. At 1400ish it only made 2" and went splat!. This is from a micro groove Marlin.
The .223 or Hornet will shoot rb with only a primer for propellent but a couple gr of Bulls Eye or "Titewad" work well.
J

[scattershot]

Those light Bullseye loads must look like dust in the bottom of a manhole. Do you use any kind of filler against the powder/

[frnkeore]

I made this up about 3 weeks ago. It's not 45/70 but you can scale it up. The rifle is a 8.15 x 46R. The groove of the rifle is .316 and the ball is .330, 00 buck shot. The primer in this case is 209 shot gun so, I can just push it out with a pencil. The rim around the primer seals between the breech block and case head, it's a tight seal and doesn't leak. The powder charge is 1.0 gr B'eye and it runs 705 fps with a 29" barrel. A friend did the same with his 32/40 and 00 buck and standard primers with success, also.

Frank

[mroliver77]

I made this up about 3 weeks ago. It's not 45/70 but you can scale it up. The rifle is a 8.15 x 46R. The groove of the rifle is .316 and the ball is .330, 00 buck shot. The primer in this case is 209 shot gun so, I can just push it out with a pencil. The rim around the primer seals between the breech block and case head, it's a tight seal and doesn't leak. The powder charge is 1.0 gr B'eye and it runs 705 fps with a 29" barrel. A friend did the same with his 32/40 and 00 buck and standard primers with success, also.

Frank

That is neat Frank! What's cool is a range can be set up in the basement, garage or even the house if'n your single

With 29" barrel there is prolly very little noise?

I use a tuft of dacron, tp or sometimes a wafer cut from a foam plate to keep tiny charges of powder against the primer.
J

[tacklebury]

Those light Bullseye loads must look like dust in the bottom of a manhole. Do you use any kind of filler against the powder/

Unique is not position sensitive and I've used as low as 2 gr. in .45 Colt cases and 6 gr. in .45-70 with zero so far ftf with regular primers. Some use Magnums, but I just haven't seen any issue with std. CCI Large Rifles.

[frnkeore]

Yes, very little noise and the balls will not go through a piece of 1" plywood at 50' so, you don't need much of a back stop.

Frank

[nanuk]

Frank, that is a light load.

I have shot 50cal RB using my old sling shot and it penetrated 3/4 in plywood....

Your round would work well for a rodent in the garden

[frnkeore]

It was ment for a 50 ft indoor target load, simualar to a Zimmerstutzen but, with a CF rifle. I didn't chrono a 2.5 gr B'eye (a full .3 cc dipper full) load but, it goes much faster. I down loaded my load untill I lost the sonic crack. What I first wanted to do was shoot it with just the shotgun primer but, it wouldn't exit the barrel. My guess is that the 2.5 gr load would be in the 1350 fps range with it's 54 gr ball (more powerful than a 22rf), as 1.6 gr still had a sonic crack.

Frank

[Jetwrench]

thermal paper has been mentioned but what do you fellers think about a lubed patch,like a muzeloader? Jetwrench

[Janoosh]

I'm using 10 grns Trailboss, or 10 grns Unique for a single 457 tumble lubed round ball. Just plinking and getting some trigger time with a H+R Trapdoor carbine. But, is a patched ball do-able? What is thermal paper? I know a ball seated on the most holy black is safe but won't a ball seated on smokeless raise pressure? A lesson is learned every day, and I've learned a lot here. Thanks to all.

[tacklebury]

Thermal Receipts are the type you get that have a shiney finish and are heat sensitive. Note that they discolor with heat but tend to avoid burning. I simply cut receipts into squares big enough to surround the ball and leave a tail. I put the tail into the case and press the ball down and squeeze like normal. I've done some like cups, but they don't seem to help with the leading much at higher velocities. Here's a pic of some .22 balls with the wads on them.

[Jetwrench]

Janoosh, thermal recpt paper is mentioned in post #20 by tackelbury. I take it that he is refering to thermal reactive paper like comes out of gas pumps and from stores and such, anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong. As for is a patched ball do-able, I would think it would be, but I have never tried it, so I really cant say. I THINK a ball over any powder would have a lower pressure than a conical bullet due to the smaller bearing surface. I THINK a lubed patch would solve leading or striping problems if they were present, due to an ill fitted ball or any other reason. Key word there is think as I am a learner more than a teacher, so anyone feel free to corect me if I am wrong. Jetwrench

[Jetwrench]

tacklebury types faster than me. so there is your answer great pic btw. He He He they look like little swimers

[tacklebury]

Hehe thanks. 8) THese are the RB's for my .22 Muzzle loader converted Marlin Papoose.

[Jetwrench]

oh really, now that sounds very intersting. Not to hijack the thread but I would really like to know more about the conversion, Jetwrench

[tacklebury]

Hehe here's the link to a little post on the process of testing it.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=129107

[Janoosh]

Thanks, the pictures were worth the explanation. I have thermal receipts and will give it a try. They do look like swimmers, though. I read somewhere that in the 1700's to 1800's they tied a leather patch to the ball. Probably works the same as the swimmers. Now.... Pressure! I found the ball needs a crimp for proper ignition with Trail Boss. Tight bore in H+R trapdoor and I'm not getting any leading with lee snot. When I'm camera literate (another learning experience) I'll post some pictures.