LeveRevoltuion Powder

[RPRNY]

Would there be sufficient gains in a 30-30 with Leverevolution in a 13" barrel length?

The evidence seems to suggest that in such a short barrel, it would likely only be with very heavy for caliber bullets, and therefore relatively slower loads for caliber. With a 13" barrel, It would seem that lighter bullets and faster powder would be the ticket.

[muskeg13]

Larry, you are a gem...the absolute gold standard. Thanks for all of your advice on the many topics that pop up on this website. You know what you are talking about.

I guess I'm starting to act my age in a bad way, newfangled stuff and all, I'd passed up LeveRevolution powder almost as bad as smokeless is just a fad, thinking it was simply some magic powder for polymer (gag) tipped projectiles. I happened to peruse the near empty shelves of the local Sportsman's Warehouse a few days ago and saw they had LeveRevolution.

It's taken me a week to realize there may be great possibilities for this powder for several calibers I load: .303 Savage, .303 British, .35 Winchester...and the list goes on. This is a great pastime.

[starmac]

Thankfully everybody has not read about Larrys work up on it. It has stayed on the shelf in fairbanks to get the limit more than just one day. lol

[Larry Gibson]

[QUOTE=tygar;2502619]

.................."While I've tested LeveRevolution quite a bit with 150 gr jacketed, the 160 gr FTX, 311041s and the 30-180-FNs it appears, regardles of the bullet weight and type, the powder doesn't start burning efficiently until the load gets to 100% loading density. That is 34.5 - 40 gr depending on type and weight of bullet. "

From what you wrote about 34.5-40gr LveR from 150-180, can I infer that we could use 40gr with 150s & correspondingly less for 160, 170, 180 down to 34.5?

Thanks again. You must have a doctorette in bulletology.
Tom

Tom

You certainly can "infer" that but I caution you to not take it for granted. we "work up" loads because every rifle and components are different. Even with the 150's Id suggest starting at 34.5 gr and work up to 40 gr though case capacity may become an issue before you reach 40 gr. Case capacity will depend on case make used, sizing and bullet seating depth.

Thanks for the comments guys, I do appreciate them. I'm just here to learn and pass on what I've learned, mostly the hard way.........

Larry Gibson

[Bill*B]

Yes, I'm another one who learns "the hard way". Didn't take your advice to work up, just poured 35 grains of LVR into R-P .30-30 brass, topped it off with a Mountain Mold 182 grain GC bullet, and touched it off in my 16" barreled Winchester Trapper. Boy, howdy! 2123 fps! That's the good - now the bad: cratered primers - and the ugly: leading with my Lyman #2 alloy. A very interesting powder, but heed Larry's advice - start low and work up! And if I try it again, I'm breaking out the linotype.

[starmac]

Yes, I'm another one who learns "the hard way". Didn't take your advice to work up, just poured 35 grains of LVR into R-P .30-30 brass, topped it off with a Mountain Mold 182 grain GC bullet, and touched it off in my 16" barreled Winchester Trapper. Boy, howdy! 2123 fps! That's the good - now the bad: cratered primers - and the ugly: leading with my Lyman #2 alloy. A very interesting powder, but heed Larry's advice - start low and work up! And if I try it again, I'm breaking out the linotype.

Compared to a lot of these guys I am a total rookie, but isn't it pretty standard to start low and work up with any powder, even if the characteristics have been known for years???

[starmac]

Larry, thanks for the report. I found a large jug of LVR before everything dried up and I'll be working up some 30 Remington loads shot to be from a Remington 14 over this winter. Hope to have lots of range time while recovering from knee replacement surgery. I expect to see the same results as your 30-30's, I guess. I have large qty of 150 and 170 grain Sierra RNFP's and some Hornady 150's to work through before trying lead boolits and I've been told by a Remington Owners Forum guru that FTX bullets won't feed in these old pump guns and so don't have any plans to load any of them if I have to hand feed them.

Did you get to try any of the powder in the model 14, inquiring minds want to know. lol

[RPRNY]

After finding the loading data on LvR powder, noticed how limited the data is. Sure a marked improvement in some loadings. The 2 rounds I'm interested in trying it in are 38-55 and 444. I notice that in Hornady's loading data, they don't use it or have it listed with their 265gr. FTX boolit, bet there is a reason why. Nothing close to a listing for either of those. Not going to be the first to try, unlike Larry, don't have even close to proper pressure testing gear to do a safe workup. In time, I'm sure more rounds will be tested with this stuff, it will be interesting to watch.
Chris

I cannot comment on the 38-55 with which I have no experience. In the 444, the issue is that the combination of straight walled case and relatively light for caliber bullets tends to mitigate the beneficial effects of the progressive burn with this powder. With a 26" + barrel and 265 grs, there may be some velocity gain over say H4198. And a 22"-24" barrel with a good heavy Linotype GC bullet, say 305 grs, might also deliver some incremental velocity benefits but most 444 chambers don't have a long enough leade for big lead. I just don't see LE delivering for the 444 what it does for the smaller capacity bottleneck cases. YMMV.

[cwheel]

I've seen a couple of deer taken with the Hornady factory 444 LVR rounds, results were impressive. Friend that has the rifle was with me on the first sighting in trip and we noticed the zero on the scope change by almost +3 inches @100 yards on the first outing. The factory LVR 444 rounds weigh in +25 gr. @265 gr VS the 240 gr. other factory flat nose rounds used. I thought they had used this new powder in that loading to get the increase in speed. No, I haven't torn a round down and looked at the powder. You can buy the FTX bullets for reloading, would be great to be able to duplicate these factory loads. 38-55 I'm very careful with, 1917 production, don't want pressure above 30,000 in any load. If LVR powder has it's pressure peak further down the bore, and the 265 gr. cast used in that has enough mass to make it work, would be great as well. When I get the chance to buy a pound, will give it a try in 30-30 like Larry did with 170's, see what happens.
Chris

[RPRNY]

I've seen a couple of deer taken with the Hornady factory 444 LVR rounds, results were impressive. Friend that has the rifle was with me on the first sighting in trip and we noticed the zero on the scope change by almost +3 inches @100 yards on the first outing. The factory LVR 444 rounds weigh in +25 gr. @265 gr VS the 240 gr. other factory flat nose rounds used. I thought they had used this new powder in that loading to get the increase in speed. No, I haven't torn a round down and looked at the powder. You can buy the FTX bullets for reloading, would be great to be able to duplicate these factory loads. 38-55 I'm very careful with, 1917 production, don't want pressure above 30,000 in any load. If LVR powder has it's pressure peak further down the bore, and the 265 gr. cast used in that has enough mass to make it work, would be great as well. When I get the chance to buy a pound, will give it a try in 30-30 like Larry did with 170's, see what happens.
Chris

It is my understanding, and I am willing to be shown wrong, that the factory loaded Leverevolution rounds do not use the Leverevolution powder sold by Hodgdon.

[starmac]

It is my understanding, and I am willing to be shown wrong, that the factory loaded Leverevolution rounds do not use the Leverevolution powder sold by Hodgdon.

Hodgdon claims it is the same exact powder used in hornady leverevolution factory ammo.. They do not specifically mention 444 or 45/70 though,

[cwheel]

Guess when I get close to that rifle again, will have to tear down a round and see what the powder looks like, also how much. Notice that the factory cases for this stuff is much shorter than all others, almost 1/8" or so. Larry mentioned high load density, could also be longer bullets used.
Chris

[Shuz]

I sure wish Hodgdon would respond to my e-mail inquiring about the use of LeveRevolution powder and cast boolits for the .444 Marlin. I guess I'll try the telephone!

[cwheel]

I'm sure they would rather sell their XTP bullets for reloading the 444 VS cast. Still, no loads listed for LVR powder and their XTP bullets, strange.
Chris

[LeftyDon]

Not yet, this winter defeated me. Knee replacement slowed me down more than I expected and the snow buried the range under way too much snow for me. Bullets are still on the loading bench, but since I recently pickup up a Marlin 36 in 30-30 I have two guns that I can play with using LVR.

[starmac]

I just stopped by sportsmans and there was still 15 or so pounds of leverolution on the shelf, on the fourth day. That has to be some kind of record, even bmg doesn't last that long. The only other powder I have seen last this long the last few years is steel.

[starmac]

Just for chits and grins I filled to the brim a 30/30 case, it held 44.5 grains. A 30 rim case holds 43.8

I also filled the 308 me case, 53.7, a 308 win at 56.3 and a 300 sav at 51.9.
I am thinking someone that knows a little more about swapping powders could do something between all of them.
I think I will back off of Larrys 30/30 loads a little and try some 311291's in the 30 rem if they will cycle and chamber well.

[cwheel]

I think if Hornady wants to sell more of this powder they need to step up to the plate and develop safe loads for it just like all of the other manufactures of powder have. They can do the testing in a controlled lab setting safely, and publish the results. We go out after getting some basic guidelines and do our own testing of loads. Larry doing testing is one thing, he is set up to do pressure testing that most of the rest of us aren't set up to do. A bunch of us trying to work up loads with little or no guidelines for use of this powder might end up as a recipe for disaster sooner or later for some of us. Us buying this stuff just because it seams to fall into a place on the burn charts and trying to work up loads for it because it's all that's available could cause some real problems very soon. Think the answer should start with Hornady doing some testing on their new product, and publishing the results. Sure would help them selling this powder. This could be a rather conservative way to approach this, but I haven't blown up any firearm I reload for yet, hope to keep it that way. All of that said, it looks like this LVR powder has lots of potential for stuff that I load, but thinking the first tests should be coming from their labs and not my backyard.
Chris

[starmac]

That is why I am going to load the 30 rem, it just calls for 30/30 data. hodgdon did post data for other bullets besides the hornady ammo, but the only round I have found in the new hogdon manual that they posted data for is the 25/35 win. They did not post any data at all for the 444 and 45/70 even though there is factory ammo.

[grampa243]

That is why I am going to load the 30 rem, it just calls for 30/30 data. hodgdon did post data for other bullets besides the hornady ammo, but the only round I have found in the new hogdon manual that they posted data for is the 25/35 win. They did not post any data at all for the 444 and 45/70 even though there is factory ammo.

the 45-70 LeveRevoltuion factory ammo is not loaded with LeveRevoltuion powder..