going to start making 224 swaging dies

[newcastter]

I agree its turned into a bitchfest and only from a select few, move on already

[gnoahhh]

Gnoahhh and xfoxofshogo,

Ok, ya got me going again…..

I may have overstated the pressure a little at 55,000 but 50,000 psi is about where the cartridge is spec’d. Although in a brief search of my library, I could not find any loading data for the 5.6 X 52, similar cartridges launching 70 grain bullets at 3100 fps were in this pressure range. Pressures are lilely higher for the 90 grain reference at 3100 fps in Cartridges of the World. I would consider this cartridge to have a fairly high case capacity for a .227 or .228 diameter bullet. Although not super high pressure, I would say that that 50,000 PSI is fairly high. Agreed?

I know that you can load them down but a lot of guys are also crazy about full loads.

In terms of what Gnoahhh is planning, I was not questioning that you knows what he is doing based on what he has described. I am always safety conscious when it comes to guns and gun related – drilled into me as a young shooter and gunsmith. I stand by what I said - to proceed with caution. Note that some have reported producing intermediate bullets in the .230 range and that .002 would raise pressures significantly even in reduced loads.

I have seen first hand a couple of rifles come apart and it wasn’t good. It only takes about 150,000 PSI to reach the yield strength of the material in the action and barrel. Look at it this way, if I didn’t say anything and something bad happened, what kind of person would I be?

Best regards and stay safe,
Martin

Not agreed, I'm afraid. No loadings for the HP ever touted 3100 fps with the 70 grain bullet. Factory loads then, and now, drive it at around 2800 fps. Quite a bit less, and much lower than 50,000psi too. A lot of guys around the country are reviving the caliber for deer hunting. It works quite well in that regard. Witness the upsurge in popularity of .223-level cartridges with heavy bullets for deer hunting. If you buy into that level of performance, then it's an easy segue into using the .22 HiPower.

I too would be leery of using grossly oversize bullets. Note I was referring only to the gents who are getting .228" with their initially sized bullets.

As a side note, it was Savage's gross claims for the round's performance in their early advertising that led to it being used on stuff that could bite back, which in turn led to bad press and a reputation for unreliability. What hinders it today is the lack of .228 70 grain bullets that are short enough to be stabilized by the 1899's 1-12" rate-of-twist (or any readily attainable lighter/shorter bullet for that matter). The factory rounds available from Norma and S&B use relatively short semi-round nosed bullets which fill the bill, and which are identical to the bullets used in the pre-war factory loads.

Sorry for driving the thread off into the weeds. I would be happy to continue this discussion privately.

[gnoahhh]

O THAT WAS ALL THE DATA I FOUND ON IT ITS CUT PAST OFF THE SITE THEIR NOT MY WORDS
i just cant fine 22 HP in my book so i look it up i never even seen one but its safe to say that if some .227 and 228 are out their that a lone in of its self makes me want to Mic ever round i buy if just one ends up in a pack of 224 yes it will be bad

the point being we are not kids so do not treat us like kids if your doing reloading you know what your doing and shod be able to think for your self im not pushing my vew on you so do not push your vew on me im done with this its geting to the point of being stuip WE ARE NOT KIDS and this in my last post here in this thread

Thanks

Don't sweat it xfoetc. The likelihood of getting a .228 bullet mixed into a box of .224's is slimmer than nil. Only one company makes one anymore, and that's Hornady, and it's a loooong spire point . (And doesn't work for **** in the relatively slow rate-of-twist in the old Savages.)

You didn't find .22HP data in any of your books because obviously none of your books are old enough. It hasn't been mainstream since before WWII, and disappeared from the loading manuals in the 1960's. Some of us have been making it come back to life these last few years. Messing with the old ones and developing loads with modern components is a challenge that has it's own rewards.

[danr]

gnoahhh,
it would be possible to make a sizing die to bring the .230 down to a .227/.228 size.

those who are getting .228 may actually be getting .2285 - .2289
the readings they got may be due to the calipers they where using.

i size and test every die with a calibrated starett micrometer.


dan

[shooterg]

Won't Lee make a custom sizing die for a few bucks more ? May be the answer to the prayers of anyone with a Savage 99 in 22HP !

[danr]

Won't Lee make a custom sizing die for a few bucks more ? May be the answer to the prayers of anyone with a Savage 99 in 22HP !

yes, if you know the actual cavity size.. they can make one.. they have a long turn around time as well

but if you dont know what the REAL cavity size is going to be, its best to have someone make you one that can test it with the actual bullets your going to be sizing, to ensure a proper final size.


dan

[martin]

Gang,

I hereby apologize if I have offended anyone with my comments. I will move on. I will refrain from further comments about safety issues.

Martin

[gnoahhh]

No need to apologize. 'Tis better to err on the safe side!

[50bmg]

Where is the help or product support forum for the people that brought this dies and use these dies.

Cause I'm having issues. (NOTE I said IM having and not the dies having a problem so don't everyone jump on the ban wagon. Don't need that

The issue I have is when the point forming die top punch. It knocking holes in my soft points. I lightly tapping the projos out but still getting a small hole. Do I need more blunt punch for the perfect soft points test samples that where included in with the set.

[danr]

Where is the help or product support forum for the people that brought this dies and use these dies.

Cause I'm having issues. (NOTE I said IM having and not the dies having a problem so don't everyone jump on the ban wagon. Don't need that

The issue I have is when the point forming die top punch. It knocking holes in my soft points. I lightly tapping the projos out but still getting a small hole. Do I need more blunt punch for the perfect soft points test samples that where included in with the set.

hello 50bmg,
glad to hear the dies are doing ok.. here is how i made the sample soft points.

swage the bullets so that there is about a 1/8 - 1/4 inch lead top.
use a pencil sharpener and give them a turn. crazy as it sounds, the pencil sharpeners work great as point uniformers/trimmers.

because the bullets are kind of short for putting them into the sharpener, i used an unsized case, with a piece of paper as a patch, and inserted the bullet to it was just a light snug fit into the case, then i was able to use the pencil sharpener on it.

you could do it that way, or you could go ahead and load them up in a case, seat the bullet, then uniform the points with the sharpener afterwards..

either way works.

hope this helps.. and i know i'm going to get a hassel over using a pencil sharpener as a point uniform cutter.. lol. a little weight is lost by trimming the points, but if you really wanted to keep weight ultra uniform you could swage them a little heavy then uniform trim the points until the weight is exact.. kind of a bother though.

soon, the point uniform die will be avialable, this die will help allot with uniforming points without loosing weight.


thanks,
dan

[pcarpenter]

Where is the help or product support forum for the people that brought this dies and use these dies.

Cause I'm having issues. (NOTE I said IM having and not the dies having a problem so don't everyone jump on the ban wagon. Don't need that

The issue I have is when the point forming die top punch. It knocking holes in my soft points. I lightly tapping the projos out but still getting a small hole. Do I need more blunt punch for the perfect soft points test samples that where included in with the set.

In the ideal, it should not take that much ejector pressure to get the bullet out after point forming. Do you have them well lubed when they go in to the point forming die(but also not overlubed to the point that the bullets show dents)?

Also, it might be worth a measure of the bullet along it's length to make sure it's not balloon shaped at some point. If bigger at the head than the tail, then the bullet is keyed into the point forming die and removal is like trying to pull a light bulb out of a light bulb shaped hole.

Paul

[martin]

50bmg,

A picture would be worth a thousand words.... Any chance you could post a picture so we all can see?

Thank You,
Martin

[coyote]

Usually when making a soft point you need to use what is called a tiping die after the point forming operation .
Sometimes the bullets will extract very easily from the point former and the tips are good , but if it is a bit sticky coming out it needs to be tiped in a seperate die.

[danr]

Usually when making a soft point you need to use what is called a tiping die after the point forming operation .
Sometimes the bullets will extract very easily from the point former and the tips are good , but if it is a bit sticky coming out it needs to be tiped in a seperate die.

yep.. that die you are speaking of i named "point uniform die"


dan

[NSP64]

yep.. that die you are speaking of i named "point uniform die"


dan

So when will it be ready and how much will it be

[danr]

So when will it be ready and how much will it be

the point uniform die will be $50, no extra punches needed to use it..

it should be ready in a couple of weeks. designs are done, i just have the production company busy making die sets right now.. as soon as they are done with this current lot of dies, they will be running the point form die.



dan

[danr]

i'm about to have another 8 more sets in stock. if anyone is interested PM me..

get them while they are in stock, i'll be doing another run real soon.

thanks,
Dan

[danr]

hello everyone,
i didn't want to swamp the review thread with new stuff.. so i thought i would post it into this old thread.

i have discovered a way to make boat tails, and point uniform all in 1 bottom punch.

i'm just finishing up the designs with production, and they should be ready in the next couple of weeks.. i know many of you have been waiting for the point uniform die.. i've been holding back on the use of a die for this, as it seemed like a waist of a die body.

with this punch, it will have an ogive placed into the bottom punch.. so that you could place a formed projectile into it upside down.. if you give it a light press into the point forming die, the result is a real nice tapered back end that resembles a boat tail.. the angle of taper is the same as the ogive, but its enough to allow for EASY loading.. and should have some affect on accuracy..

then, if you use the same punch, with the core seating die, it will uniform the point.

depending on how much of a boat tail you want, it could point uniform at the same time as you are forming the boat tail. making it a 2 in 1 operation. however, in testing of the prototype, if you use to much pressure forming the boat tail you will deform the entire bullet.. it does take a little practice.. once you get the hang of it, and have the die positioned right, they come out very nice.

i hope to have some pictures for you real soon of the final boat tail bullet.


the final cost of this boat tail/point uniform punch is yet to be determined.. i should have some hard numbers for you as soon as we have cost estimates from production.

Thanks,
Dan Rickard
Owner of Kaine Dies.


PS - i'll also have 40, 38/357, and 9mm swage dies ready real soon. these will be only 1 die and punches to use it.. top and bottom, as well as a core seating bottom punch.
if you use case brass jackets, you'll be able to use the swage die for core seating, which will also slightly recess/taper the ejection rim at the same time.

[frank martinez]

I would like to order a point uniform die @ $50. I am currently borrowing a Corbin set until I can afford to buy my own. If it is set up as an independent operation I should be able to fix the odd points I have been getting.
Please pm payment info.
Frank

[danr]

I would like to order a point uniform die @ $50. I am currently borrowing a Corbin set until I can afford to buy my own. If it is set up as an independent operation I should be able to fix the odd points I have been getting.
Please pm payment info.
Frank

you know frank, i really hate to say this.. but i dont think the point uniform die method would help you.. its a rare chance that the ogives are identical between corbin and my dies.

if the ogive is not identical, it will deform the point, and it will not match the rest of the ogive of the bullet. my 223 swage die set is a #6 ogive. but i cannot guarantee that they are identical to corbin's #6 ogive.. because of the lapping involved, it does slightly modify the ogive.

also, the $50 point uniform die is just the die.. no bottom punch, because the punch needed is included in the 224 swage set already.. however, you could possibly use the corbin bottom punch for this.

i've said it before, and i'll say it again.. corbin dies and my dies are two different breeds.. its like comparing a dodge ram to a toyota pickup. they both drive, they both have a car seat.. but good luck getting a ram engine into the toyota. they are just not compatible.

i would like to say that it can be done.. but i cannot.. if you still would like to purchase a point uniform die anyways.. i'll be happy to ship you one.. i just wanted to make sure that you know what your getting into.

as soon, as i have finished with the production setup for the point uniform dies, i'll let everyone know when they are ready for ordering. until then, i will not take any advanced payments.. it just wouldn't be ethical.


thanks,
Dan