My homemade black powder

[Boz330]

Charlie,
Walmart has Spectracide stump remover or at least the one near me does and less than $5 a pound. Couldn't find it at Lowe's.

Just added some home brewed dextrin to my 2nd batch of BP since the first batch is prone to crumble pretty easy. It takes a lot longer to convert corn starch than I thought it would.

My first batch of powder (not compressed) weighs about 60% of the same volume of Swiss. I loaded some 40-65 cartridges Friday night and plan to chrono them and shoot for group this afternoon. Had to come into the shop this morning to finish a job to be picked up tomorrow. The powder is definitely fluffy. Even when you compress it into the case there is very little resistance. I am going to try and put 20gr in the case compress, add 20 more repeat and once more for a total of 60gr and see how that works. Right now I'm shooting 65gr of Swiss under a 405gr Brooks boolit.

Charlie, post some pics of your compression set up when you get it built. That is my next step.

Bob

[Charlie Sometimes]

Yea, another reason to visit Lowes- get materials and ideas on press assembly! Maybe they have 1/2 inch or larger loose bearings, too?

I know some of the people who shop at Wal-Mart must have loose bearings! Have you seen some of them? I have!
I will check Wal-Mart for the Stump Remover- never thought about them having it, and being cheaper. Heck, they probably have the denatured alcohol, too. Will be watching for falling prices on everything now.................

I want to try shellac and egg white as binders, eventually. Seems like "simple" components (all natural, no extra work involved). Converting corn starch to dextrin seems like a bit more trouble to me. I'd rather use something that you can just add to the process already working.

I will post pics's of the press once I get something figured out. I have been avoiding using my camera during pulverizing, etc. - I get dusty hands on occassion and don't want that in my only digital camera!

[Boz330]

I want to try shellac and egg white as binders, eventually. Seems like "simple" components (all natural, no extra work involved). Converting corn starch to dextrin seems like a bit more trouble to me. I'd rather use something that you can just add to the process already working.

Not really that much hassle just takes longer than I thought. I put it in the oven yesterday morning thinking an hour or hour and a half would do it, NOT. I just was planning on getting out of the house quicker than I did.

Bob

[zxcvbob]

For dextrin you should be able to use powdered wallpaper paste (particularly the ones that say, I think it is, "methylcellulose")

If you don't use any binder and don't press/corn the powder, and it eventually falls apart again into mostly dust, will it still work OK if you lightly-compress it into .45 Colt or .357 Magnum cases?

[Fly]

When I make dextrin I cook the corn starch in a shallow pie tin in the oven at 450 degrees
till just a gold color.It takes about 3 to four hours.

Fly

[Boz330]

When I make dextrin I cook the corn starch in a shallow pie tin in the oven at 450 degrees
till just a gold color.It takes about 3 to four hours.

Fly

Silly me, thinking I could get this done before SWMBO got home and wanted to know what the hell I was cooking in HER oven and then having to esplain it.

Fly, any chance of you putting up a pic of your press. Thanks

Bob

[Fly]

You bet my friend.I will post pic's of my ball mill & anything else that will help you slackers!

Just Kidding Fly

[Skipper]

Just curious...........why are you using dextrin as a binder when commercial black powder doesn't use it?


http://goexpowder.com/images/LoadCharts/MSDS-A-Blasting.pdf


http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/files/Schuetzen%20Powder.pdf

[zxcvbob]

Commercial powder uses the sulfur as a binder, sort of. They press it to a density of... 1.6 something (grams per cubic centimeter?) to get something like a ceramic. Then they crush it to make the grains and screen it for size. I assume the leftover dust gets mixed into the next batch.

[Longwood]

[QUOTE=Charlie Sometimes;1285704

when I opened it the balls were coated like a shell with fine sulfur (looked like malted milk balls with out the chocolate) and there was one big ball of sulfur

I bet you did not think that was as funny as I did.
Mainly because I saw it coming.
Anything you put in a mill dry, needs to be "EXTRA, EXTRA DRY"!!!!
I would probably put mine on a cookie tray in a low oven over night or keep it in a box with a hotplate under it or a incandescent light bulb heater to dry it a few days before trying to mill it.


It was warm over night, and the temperature reached 85 in my shop today, so the humidity is on the increase- that must be why it caked over night.


Any moisture at all, is too much. I suspect that it sucks up humidity like a sponge. I worked in a cement plant for a couple of years so I have seen how they handle fine dirt.


Not going to mill KNO3- it is fine enough as received in the stump remover bottle, and it is water soluble, too.


Milling is how they got it so fine.


(Have to figure out how to get the coating off them now.)


Try adding a little bit of gravel to the mill for a few minutes to see if that cleans your balls. I would be sure to use a gravel with no flint, agate or quart type rocks.

Sign of a man REAL man,,, One that cleans his balls with gravel.


Charcoal is a lot harder than you might imagine it to be, especially the larger pieces- it can tear up a blender, so might as well be rocks, which is what sulfur and KNO3 are. I guess you could use large steel ball bearings in this part of the process- that might increase the speed of milling the charcoal.


There are Rod Mills also.
I wonder how a few pieces of rebar, or hotroll rods with nicely rounded ends, would work in a charcoal mill?

[Fly]

Just curious...........why are you using dextrin as a binder when commercial black powder doesn't use it?


http://goexpowder.com/images/LoadCha...A-Blasting.pdf


http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/files...n%20Powder.pdf

Please read threw this thread & you will see binders are used in none corned powder only.
Fly

[Boz330]

Went out last evening and shot 2 different loads over the chrono and for group. I know this is a Muzzle Loading section but I burn far more BP in my BPCRs than my MLs. This was through a Ballard 40-65 with a Malcolm scope. The range was 100yds.
The first load was a drop tubed case full which weighed 48.5gr. It was then compressed .250. My normal load of Swiss is 65gr and that isn't a case full. The boolit was 405gr.
Velocities
1 1065
2 1076
3 1034
4 1103
5 1032
6 1112
7 1057
8 1042
9 1083
10 1055
My control round can be seen on the left side of the target and it was doing 1305 from a clean barrel. Forgot to take off the 600yd windage but corrected after that shot.

The next load was 60gr, but the only way to get that much powder in the case was to weigh it in 20gr increments and then compress it by hand after each dump. After the last dump a wad was added and the whole mess then compressed .250 and the boolit seated. Here are the velocities.
1 1064
2 1035
3 946
4 1160
5 1201
6 1046
7 994
8 1008
9 1023

As you can see the velocities were all over the place and one is missing. I was loosing my light by this time and that might have had something to do with the readings, BUT the vertical stringing would indicate that they may have been right on.
Conclusions;
This batch of charcoal wasn't quite done and I put it back in the fire after it cooled to finish up and that might have been a problem. My second batch looked much better but haven't made any powder with it yet.
Also my grains weren't as uniform as they could have been and apparently compressing the powder the way I did, didn't work. There were only 2 shots that showed any increase in velocity and I could tell from recoil on both that they were hotter.
For my first try I was extremely tickled with the results. The first load would definitely shoot minute of deer and even at that velocity a 400gr slug would go clean through. With the compressed plug powder more energy should be available for a cartridge gun. In a ML this method should work fine since you aren't limited by case capacity. I still have a little powder left that I will run through one of my ML.


Bob

[Fly]

Ya I woundered about your charcoal being cooked enough, when you said how hard
it was to run threw the meat grinder.Willow should not be very hard to do that.

Hardwood like oak or hickery will for sure.But for gun powder hard wood should not be used
anyway.We only use them for spark effects in our fireworks.

Boz was that the powder you used no binder with?If so when you pushed in down into
the cartridge, it most likely crumbled back into mill dust.

Fly

[Boz330]

Boz was that the powder you used no binder with?If so when you pushed in down into
the cartridge, it most likely crumbled back into mill dust.

Fly

It was. My thoughts are that it crumbled back into dust but only at the compression point and there were 3 of them. The flame column would go till it hit the 3 different compression spots in the case which caused a hiccup effect if that makes sense, disrupting the smooth burning of the powder. The results are sure obvious in the numbers, a 255fps extreme spread compared to 80.

Bob

[Lee]

Does the willow used for home made charcoal have to be fresh? I have some 2 year old outside seasoned "LOGS" of willow that look mighty tempting at the moment?????

[Boz330]

I'm sure no expert on charcoal but the bark has to come off and if they are bigger than thumb size you will need to split them down. I'm sure someone with more savy than me will jump in here. I'm just learning.

Bob

[Fly]

No as long as they have not started to rot.I have some in my wood pile over a year
old.Boz is right on about removing the bark.

Fly

[Charlie Sometimes]

My apple wood charcoal was reduced greatly in the retort.
It was not fresh- I let it set for maybe 2 months or more before I got around to toasting it.
It was very dry as compared to when it was cut green, but I had already removed my bark.
I will know more soon if it is any good.

If it gets hot enough I would think any sized wood would be reduced and be crumbly when it is done.
Of course, bigger pieces could take longer.........................
Seems someone mentioned in another thread concerning this topic that they were using larger sized chunks in their retort- maybe wrist sized or larger comes to mind.
Give it a try, only way to know for sure.

Didn't get to Wally World, like I had planned- forgot it was Memorial Day!
Got an idea for a press- going to look around at work for some scrap round stock, etc. first, before I visit Lowe's or some such.
Also got an idea and some material for a real serious retort, too.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Forgot to comment-
The humidiity increased drastically in our area over the last few days- quickly.
It was 98 here today- hazy, hot, and humid.
Probably a new record for the day.

As an indicator of how humid it is NOW in my shop-
I had a SS bowl full of Marvelux lead flux sitting on the bench since before last winter, uncovered.
It was hard, but fairly dry until Saturday- in the last 3 days, it has absorbed enough moisture to be level full of water!
THAT is crazy- you could almost see it filling up Monday. (No leaks, rain, etc. either.)

[Lee]

Today's my birthday.
Woke up to a terrific storm.
Went outside later to see this:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/atta...1&d=1307481013

I think I have enough willow for charcoal making!

Note, picnic table lower left, for comparison