Lee slugs

[chasw]

I'm been loading Lyman 1-1/4 oz slugs in my Rem 11-87 for a while, with some good results. These are the ones shaped like giant airgun pellets. My 21" barrel has a rifled choke tube, but otherwise is a smoothbore. A modest charge of WSF powder and velocity of about 1100 fps produces promising accuracy, reliable ejection and tolerable recoil. Lately, however, I've been reading about others having success with the Lee 7/8 and 1 oz slugs, which also are designed to fit inside a regular plastic wad with a 7/8 oz shotcup.

My question has to do with the design of the Lee slug. What is the little "key" at the base of the slug about? Lee says its helps transmit the rotational forces of the rifling (assuming you have some) from the wad to the slug. How does this "key" grab the wad? Is it just friction? The bottom of the shot cup in my wads is smooth, nothing in particular for the "key" to grab.

I notice the mold for the Lee slug is only about $20, including handles, whereas the Lyman is more like $90 w/o handles. Cheap is good, sometimes best. Are others getting good accuracy results with Lee slugs. - CW

[JIMinPHX]

The drivekey digs into the wad pretty well actually. These wads were recovered from some 1,000fps low power loads. They started out flat.

[mckutzy]

I use a few cards in mine this also helps to take up space in shot cup for the 7/8oz I cast.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Do a search here in shotguns. This has been through the mill and there is good info.

[Bullseye 4.5 gr]

Been loading shot shells for 30 some years, all with plastic wads. Never used card wads. Also have been loading metallic for 20 years. Been making all my bullets for my pistols and rifles for 5-6 years. I enjoy doing this and shooting what I make.

Now I am making Lee R.E.A.L bullets and also Lee 7/8th oz slugs.

In reading most of these threads about loading slugs, I come to understand that with the Lee slugs in rifled barrels, the impact of the gun going off drives the key on the back of the Lee slug into the soft plastic wad. Then, as the wad is engaged by the rifling, the slug will spin along with the wad, and away it goes, still spinning as the wad drops away. Makes sense to me.

One thing I do not understand tho, is that some of the guys place a card wad between the base of the slug and the plastic shot wad in order to pick up the slack so the slug will be at the proper height in order to get a good crimp. If you have to put a card wad in, doesn't that defeat the purpose of having the slug key engage the plastic wad?? Or is it such a tight fit that the card wad and the plastic wad sort of become stuck to each other as one unit and the slug will still spin? Shouldn't the card wad be over the powder and under the plastic wad in order to get the right height, or is this the wrong thing to do??

I can see that the card wad between the plastic wad and the slug would make no difference on a smooth bore barrel, but wonder about the card wad "slipping" in a rifled barrel especially if the wad was really thick.

Also I just took a AA 1 1/8 oz trap load, removed the shot and put in 7/8oz Lee slug to see how it would fit. The difference is a tad over 5/16" difference in order to make the slug come up to the proper height to get a nice crimp. I used a piece of leather cinch strap for experimenting purposes.

What do you all say???

[JIMinPHX]

This is mostly conjecture, so please take it with a grain of salt.

I have seen that the drive key digs into the base of a plastic wad & grips well. I expect that in the event that you used a card, the key would not dig into the plastic as well, but friction on the outside diameter of the slug may grip it well enough to give it a spin, depending on how tight the fit is inside your bore. I believe that the drive key serves 2 purposes. First, it grips the wad to help pick up the spin. Second, it gives the wad something to push against so that the wad doesn't collapse into the hollow cavity in the slug. In the case of a slug with a wad under it, the grip will probably be less, but the support will probably be better. I got a lot of deformation with just a plastic wad at 1,000fps. Perhaps at higher speeds the extra force involved would cause the slug to dig into the wad, even with a card between them. I have gotten pretty good results with the Lee slug in a smooth bore, so maybe the spin isn't all that important for a slug that is so close in shape to being a ball.

Again, most of this is just theorizing on my part. Please don't take it for gospel.

[diehard]

I can see that the card wad between the plastic wad and the slug would make no difference on a smooth bore barrel,

True statement...which is why the card is added. Since rotation is not needed, the card: A] helps adjust the slug to a proper crimp height, which is critical in foster-type slugs., and B] keeps the slugs from bonding with the wad and allows it to separate cleanly so the wad does not effect accuracy (same principle used with shot patterns--especially buckshot).

This topic has been "through the mill" here many times and with a search you will get several different opinions about the use of card wards with the Lee slug. I use them for the reasons stated above (which could be as much conjecture as fact for all I know). However, at the short ranges I use them (15 to 30 yards) in defensive shotgun drills I doubt it all really matters. Where I think you will see a difference is shooting 50 yards from a bench for accuracy. I think I have proved this to myself at least to my own satisfaction.

To the Point: one would use a card wad with a Lee Slug shot through a smoothbore for the same reasons one would use a card wad for all "wad slugs" whether undersized Foster style (Buckbuster, Meyer's Slugmaster**) or Lyman Sabot slugs: Crimp height, and protection from wad 'blow through."

**To my knowledge neither of these are still on the market. Slugmaster sells Lyman slugs now. http://www.slugmasters.com/

[Bullseye 4.5 gr]

Thank You Sir! I see where you are coming from on this. I'm going to shoot these in my 1973 smooth bore 1100 with a "dial a duck" on the end, so am not concerned about the spin, but my son in law has a Browning with a cantilever rifled barrel so that is why I was questioning things.

May I ask what components you use to make your slug loads?

[SuperBlazingSabots]

[diehard]

I have tried almost everything I could get my hands on for these slugs, mostly substituting shot loads (1 1/8 oz shot loads for the 1 oz slug, and 1 oz shot loads for the 7/8 oz slug). Many, many combinations will work pretty well, depending on what your expectations are. My expectations are not all that high to begin with so I am generally satisfied with most everything.

To fill my End of Civilization/ Zombie Defense footlocker, I settled on a 7/8 oz Lee slugs, Estate hulls and Federal 12S0 clone DRXXL wads, Fed 209A primers, homemade 20 ga hard card wads, over 19.5 grs of 700X--fold crimped. This is a light recoiling/low velocity load capable of 1.5" groups at 25 yards. Cheap to make, and they cycle and shoot well in my two Mossbergs.

For 50 -60 yard hunting loads IMHO you can't beat the load data offered by Lee (http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/SM%203529.pdf).

My two most accurate "hunting loads" have been LEE 7/8 OZ slugs loaded in FED GM hulls, with WIN 209 primers, in FED 12S0 wads with Circle Fly .135" CARDs under the slug, over 41.4gr of HS-6 with a FOLD Crimp. This is a stiff kicking load, capable of CLOVER LEAF Groups at 25 yards and averaging 3-5" groups at 50 yards.

My second best HV load (according to my range notes): is a LEE 7/8 OZ slug in a WIN AA hull, with a WIN 209 primer, in a WAA12 with a Circlefly .135" CARD wad over 37.3 grains of HS-6 and a FOLD crimp. These shoot very very good short range groups with an IC choke tube, and can get excellent groups with the addition of a rifled choke tube(shot without the hard card)

Note: I would be very surprised for a smoothbore to get better than 3-5" groups passed 60 yards. My guess is that when the slugs go subsonic, accuracy is no longer consistent. A rifled barrel or rifled choke makes some noticeable difference for 60-75 yards. I've only had a few patterns that could qualify as "groups" at 100 yards..nothing to brag about. The Lyman 525 wad slug has worked better for me at longer distances.


I have never used Lee slugs for hunting but wouldn't hesitate to do so within the ranges I am used to shooting.

I have some records on 1oz slugs (all using published data) but they are in my garage and it is -7 degrees out there, and I'm quite cozy at the moment... sorry.

But what do I know? I spent my last two summers trying to perfect slug and buckshot loads, only to realize I have a lot more to learn about both before I can admit to know what I am doing. I read (daily...all year) everything I can find on the subject. Only time will tell if I am wasting my efforts trying...but I am having fun...and blowing up targets at the pit is a hoot.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Putting the hard nitrocard below the slug helps transmit the driving forces evenly to its edges
and to give it a solid firm base.
Like the first picture above you do not want your petals to overhang over the slug, cut the excess petals for quicker and faster release upon exit!

12 ga. Lee 1 oz slug, 23/4" Fiocchi, Fio 616 primer,34 grains of HS-6 powder, Fed 12S3 wad with 1/8 of an inch top of petals cut off, put a nitro card of .125 in wad below slug followed by fold crimp. Be ready for a stiff recoil.
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

[eye shot]

If you knurle-- roll the Lee slug on a file that helps impart spin. Pick up the spent wad and you will see file marks on the inside of the petals.

[navymrchief]

Can the Lee, or for that matter also the Lyman, slugs be roll crimped instead of regular star crimped? Will it hurt the accuracy to roll crimp instead of star crimp? I just like to roll crimp my slugs because I can readily see (or feel for that matter) that I have a slug instead of a shot load when I am using fired, shot hulls to load my slugs.

[JIMinPHX]

Putting the hard nitrocard below the slug helps transmit the driving forces evenly to its edges
and to give it a solid firm base.

Good point. I've noticed that when I recover my slugs from a soft target, the bases are no longer flat. They are curved.

[JIMinPHX]

Can the Lee, or for that matter also the Lyman, slugs be roll crimped instead of regular star crimped? Will it hurt the accuracy to roll crimp instead of star crimp? I just like to roll crimp my slugs because I can readily see (or feel for that matter) that I have a slug instead of a shot load when I am using fired, shot hulls to load my slugs.

I had good luck roll crimping the Lee slug once I got a good roll crimping tool. The plastic roll crimp tool that I started with did not do so well. You can see more on that in posts # 35 & 37 here - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...t=88327&page=2

The Lyman book says to roll one type of Lyman slug & fold crimp the other. I don't remember which is which.

[mckutzy]

VdoMemorie- did u find the lee slug was being held (the wad didnt release upon exiting the bore) by the wad before u started cutting the end of the petals even with the addition of the cards under the slug?

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Mckutzy, if the wad petals are too long it will either get cought when you roll crimp them and will get bent or damaged and even if you fold crimp them they will wrap inwards on the slug.
Since we want a clean release for better accuracy its better to cut them down just like in the pictures and I always use clear Fiocchi hulls so I can just look at the hull and see what is the load about! It helps to use clear hulls.
Use deep roll crimp for better combustion and launch!


Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

[heathydee]

I took delivery of a Lee 7/8 oz slug mould a couple of months ago and have been playing with loads with the aim of getting accuracy sufficient to lay a pig or a goat over at short range without benenit of sights on my shotgun .
My mental scenario involves shotgunning for rabbits when a pig pokes it head out from behind a blackberry bush to see what's going on . The shell full of 6 shot is removed from the top barrel of my Miroku , and is substituted with a home loaded slug which is sent in the direction of the pig so it can begin its new career as pork .
To achieve this end I began by loading the slugs in Winchester WP wads , which feature shortened petals , inside AA hulls . 22 grains of AP70 was the propellant charge . The data from this site gives 29 grains as maximum but at 1550 fps and 9500 psi . Too much recoil for me , for a load I want to practice with and let a lot of them off in the process .http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handlo...de/shotgun.asp
I followed the instructions that came with the mould and applied a folded , eight segment star crimp to the first batch of shells and proceeded to try them out . Velocity was about 1300 fps and recoil moderate but out of two different shotguns accuracy was woeful . A paper plate could be hit nearly every time at 25 metres . Figuring the lack of a rear sight might have something to do with the lack of performance , I taped a crude sight to the rib of the O/U and tried again . Groups of about 4 inches at 25 metres .
The next test involved roll crimping the slugs in place into a shortened hull and this proved extremely beneficial .The first five shots from the bench at 25 metres were comfortably under 2 inches . 1.8 if I recall correctly . Velocity picked up to average 1325 fps.
I use a drill press and a home-made roll crimper to apply the crimp . A tiny amount of lube on the portion to be rolled over allows the shell to be easily held with fingers . Without the lube the shell wants to take up the rotation of the drill press .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLnoQFoRWZE