Well I am in the 10mm crowd so there.
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Well I am in the 10mm crowd so there.
Attachment 325549
Description: 45 acp barnes +p brass
Notes 1: mp 454-640 1.265 oal
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 251.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
20 1103 678.17 276.85
19 1060 626.33 266.06
18 1054 619.26 264.55
17 1077 646.58 270.33
16 1077 646.58 270.33
15 1037 599.44 260.29
14 1054 619.26 264.55
13 1085 656.22 272.33
12 1058 623.97 265.56
11 1060 626.33 266.06
10 1067 634.63 267.82
9 1045 608.73 262.30
8 1051 615.74 263.80
7 1085 656.22 272.33
6 1055 620.43 264.80
5 1070 638.20 268.57
4 1041 604.07 261.29
3 1073 641.78 269.32
2 1069 637.01 268.32
1 1047 611.06 262.80
Average: 1063.40
StdDev: 16.72
Min: 1037
Max: 1103
Spread: 66
True MV: 1064.61
Shots/sec: 0.11
I've seen 2, 1911's and 1 sw 45 acp shooting 45 super, destroy the barrels and slide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandspider500
What model was the S&W? What weight bullet?
Then you witnessed an overload or a bullet setback if the barrel split. The Rowland and super brass have a taller solid brass case web for barrels with poor case support. It moves the the thin brass farther up the chamber where it is supported by steel. Rowland barrels are not ramped. But even some ramped 45 acp barrels have poor case support, which would require the super brass to be able to evade that unsupported area.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntersdog
https://i.imgflip.com/8m0mrl.jpg
This is a factory Glock 21 gen 3 barrel, see how far the ramp extends into the chamber? This barrel has poor case support. This would allow the brass to become guppied or pregnant or possibly blow out and maybe cause a chain reaction down the magazine well. But to be clear, the brass will fail not the barrel steel.
https://i.imgflip.com/8m0o1u.jpg
This is a Dasan Glock 21 barrel, do you see the difference? When a case is in the chamber it's surrounded by steel all the way around, right up to where the case tapers to the extraction groove.This barrel has excellent case support. This barrel is able to use 45 acp brass using super loads, but that doesn't mean it won't grenade if it gets some serious bullet set back, and the brass will act like tissue paper, because the brass isn't containing the pressure, the barrel is, or was.
https://i.imgflip.com/8m2gl7.jpg
https://i.imgflip.com/8m2hh2.jpg
This is a Ruger Blackhawk 45 ACP cylinder, and it too can handle 45 super loads using plain ol 45 acp brass, it has 100% case support.
https://www.johnnyego.com/firearms/1...mmbarrel05.JPG
Here's two 1911 10mm barrels.
https://i.imgflip.com/8m16vb.jpg
One of the barrels produces brass that looks like this when shooting stout loads, can you guess which one?
Both 10mm and 45 super with the proper barrel can be loaded hotter than anything you can buy on the shelf. You will get to a point, where you cannot slow the slide down enough anymore. This requires a compensator, and depending how efficient it is, possibly a reduced rate recoil sping. With a comped well supported barrel, regular 45 acp brass can be used to Rowland levels.
Also, if you do decide on a 45 cal build, this is an excellent little bullet and the mold is fairly inexpensive. It's only .528 long, it has a .325 meplat and if loaded to 1.2 oal(which will require a throated barrel) with power pistol or longshot it will exceed 10mm and not even be a +p load.
https://i.imgflip.com/8m2k08.jpg
It's the lee 452-200rf
It was a 45 ACP S&W Shield. That was his only handgun and thought he could carry hotter loads while out hunting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughty
My old 45 Super, I got 460 Rowland reloading data (for the 45 Super) from, a guy on handgun hunting many years back and use a 20lb spring and LWD Brake and it ran great with a KKM threaded barrel the was throated for longer bullets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandspider500
I was using hunters something cast bullets with the green lube midaway sold.
The old Glock smile brass.
Got load data you'd care to share?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandspider500
This is the best advice so far. I also am a fan of skipping right from 9mm to 45. No need for 10mm when you can shoot a 200 grain .325 meplat at 1100 fps at standard pressure with Power Pistol. I have a throated barrel and I have loaded that bullet out to 1.23. At 1.23" I went higher and higher with Power Pistol in standard ACP cases until I could see the tiniest bulge when you hold two fired cases next to each other. When compared to pressure signs with the same bullet at 1.18", the longer load reached about 23k PSI or less at 1300 fps. Loaded shorter with ACP +P data the max load goes a little over 1150 fps. If you compare the short 1100 fps fired case to the long 1300 fps fired case they are identical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandspider500
What I am saying in a long roundabout way is that the lowly 45 ACP with Power Pistol and a lead bullet will equal the hottest 10mm loads. 45 ACP+P with Power Pistol is more power than above book - over max loads in 10mm with Power Pistol or 800x.
If you want to set the gun up for 45 Super level of recoil, there is no reason to buy the Super cases when you are loading lead bullets. Just load ACP +P with a slowish powder in ACP cases and you will equal or exceed the 10mm. ACP +P with a lead bullet will hit Super jacketed bullet velocities. Likewise, don't load +P 45 ACP with lead bullets and slow powder unless your gun is set up for high recoil. A 200 gr at 1100-1200 fps will beat the gun to death in 500 rounds or less, even though it is safe in pressure.
I have pushed regular once fired ACP cases past 26k PSI in an unsupported barrel with no problems. I have seen 40 S&W light loads in old glock barrels that looked like the brass was on the edge of rupturing, and I have seen 357 mag lever actions where one load at max pressure will severely bulge the brass, but 26k PSI on an ACP case in an unsupported chamber looked fine with just a small bulge. I imagine that the flat base firing pin stop and heavier springs keeps the case fully in battery at the elevated pressures, but a stock 1911 with a bevelled firing pin stop and stock springs might unlock early and rupture a case.
If you wanna buy Super cases and load up max loads it will leave the 10mm in the dust. How fast can a 10mm shoot a 260 grain HP? The ACP +p can chuck it at 950 fps and Super cases with Super pressures will launch it over 1200 fps.
The Super can shoot that Lee 200-RF at over 1400 fps in a 5" 1911. You couldn't even get there in a 10mm with a 16" barrel. What about a longslide Super? Add at least 75 fps. It is much closer to a 44 Mag than 10mm, which is weaker than a 357 Mag.
Well depends on the game and your ability to handload.
460 Rowland is the most powerful. With Rowland kit it is no worse to shoot than a heavy loaded 10mm. But sectional density is greater on the Rowland. I will disclose I am 10mm fanboy and have all the calibers listed in your survey. I have several guns in all the calibers. Each has a unique characteristic and handling quality.
The 10 has many options available for a carry weapon and hunting weapon.
The 460 Rowland conversions are longer because of the required comp to hold the gunto lockup longer so they dont beat your gun apart.
If you buy a Glock model 40 and puta 7” after market fully supported barrel you can get some really impressive performance.
Both the above are a little big to carry unless in a chest holster. That said both deliver outstanding performance with WFN cast bullets for both protection against angry critters and for taking game.
You can get a HK USP it will handle 45 Super but still not up to 10mm standards and now where near 460 Rowland.
Gun choices goes to 10mm
Power and performance 460 Rowland
My advice get both and get many different 10mm I have Sig Comp xTen , Glock Model 20 , FN 510 Tactical, 1911 Reeder Custom 10mm, Mectec carbine, and a plinker in 10mm in the Hi-Point (which is much better gunnthan one would think.)
I have one 460 Rowland built on a Sig STX with Rowland kit.
45 I have a FTX Tactical, HK USP 45
My answer is simple get as many as you can afford and have allot of fun. I reload and cast my own projectiles so I shoot allot one press is setup for 10mm the other I switch as needed.
Good luck with your choices.
Description: lee 200 9gr longshotQuote:
Originally Posted by Thor's Daddy
Notes 1: 1.2 oal barnes +p brass
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 208.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 1208 674.08 251.26
9 1163 624.80 241.90
8 1174 636.67 244.19
7 1202 667.40 250.02
6 1208 674.08 251.26
5 1185 648.66 246.48
4 1237 706.84 257.30
3 1203 668.51 250.22
2 1164 625.87 242.11
1 1227 695.45 255.22
Average: 1197.10
StdDev: 25.21
Min: 1163
Max: 1237
Spread: 74
True MV: 1198.46
Shots/sec: 0.14
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Description: lee 200 9.5gr longshot
Notes 1: 1.2 oal barnes +p brass
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 208.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
9 1270 745.05 264.16
8 1270 745.05 264.16
7 1227 695.45 255.22
6 1220 687.54 253.76
5 1267 741.54 263.54
4 1277 753.29 265.62
3 1267 741.54 263.54
2 1229 697.72 255.63
1 1267 741.54 263.54
Average: 1254.89
StdDev: 22.50
Min: 1220
Max: 1277
Spread: 57
True MV: 1256.31
Shots/sec: 0.03
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Description: lee 200 10gr longshot
Notes 1: 1.2 oal barnes +p brass
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 208.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 1327 813.43 276.02
9 1329 815.88 276.43
8 1302 783.07 270.82
7 1310 792.72 272.48
6 1306 787.89 271.65
5 1326 812.21 275.81
4 1292 771.09 268.74
3 1317 801.22 273.94
2 1310 792.72 272.48
1 1319 803.65 274.35
Average: 1313.80
StdDev: 12.00
Min: 1292
Max: 1329
Spread: 37
True MV: 1315.29
Shots/sec: 0.01
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Description: 45 acp
Notes 1: 200gr lee 1.2 oal 8.4gr ultimate pistol
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 0.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 208.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 1045 504.44 217.36
9 1042 501.55 216.74
8 1033 492.92 214.86
7 1064 522.95 221.31
6 1063 521.97 221.10
5 1061 520.01 220.69
4 1032 491.97 214.66
3 1053 512.20 219.02
2 1040 499.63 216.32
1 1043 502.51 216.94
Average: 1047.60
StdDev: 11.96
Min: 1032
Max: 1064
Spread: 32
True MV: 1047.60
Shots/sec: 0.12
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Description: lee 200 8.9gr ultimate pistol
Notes 1: 1.2 oal barnes +p brass
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 208.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 1160 621.58 241.28
9 1138 598.22 236.70
8 1152 613.03 239.62
7 1127 586.71 234.42
6 1134 594.03 235.87
5 1145 605.61 238.16
4 1154 615.16 240.03
3 1113 572.23 231.50
2 1114 573.26 231.71
1 1113 572.23 231.50
Average: 1135.00
StdDev: 17.82
Min: 1113
Max: 1160
Spread: 47
True MV: 1136.29
Shots/sec: 0.06
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Description: lee 200 9.4gr ultimate pistol
Notes 1: 1.2 oal barnes +p brass
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 208.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
9 1177 639.93 244.82
8 1182 645.38 245.86
7 1199 664.08 249.39
6 1208 674.08 251.26
5 1195 659.65 248.56
4 1209 675.20 251.47
3 1188 651.95 247.10
2 1217 684.16 253.14
1 1221 688.67 253.97
Average: 1199.56
StdDev: 15.40
Min: 1177
Max: 1221
Spread: 44
True MV: 1200.92
Shots/sec: 0.13
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Description: lee 200 9.8gr ultimate pistol
Notes 1: 1.2 oal barnes +p brass
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 208.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
9 1246 717.16 259.17
8 1266 740.37 263.33
7 1251 722.93 260.21
6 1262 735.69 262.50
5 1249 720.62 259.79
4 1246 717.16 259.17
3 1243 713.71 258.54
2 1241 711.41 258.13
1 1248 719.46 259.58
Average: 1250.22
StdDev: 8.42
Min: 1241
Max: 1266
Spread: 25
True MV: 1251.64
Shots/sec: 0.13
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Description: lee 200 15.3gr TCM
Notes 1: 1.2 oal barnes +p brass
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 208.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
8 1134 594.03 235.87
7 1145 605.61 238.16
6 1161 622.65 241.49
5 1146 606.66 238.37
4 1156 617.30 240.45
3 1122 581.52 233.38
2 1160 621.58 241.28
1 1132 591.93 235.46
Average: 1144.50
StdDev: 14.24
Min: 1122
Max: 1161
Spread: 39
True MV: 1145.80
Shots/sec: 0.06
Group Size (IN): 0.00
This one should be standard pressure
Description: lee 200 8.4gr cfe pistol
Notes 1: 1.2 oal barnes +p brass
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 208.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 1142 602.44 237.54
9 1104 563.01 229.63
8 1108 567.10 230.46
7 1139 599.28 236.91
6 1153 614.10 239.82
5 1127 586.71 234.42
4 1128 587.76 234.62
3 1137 597.17 236.50
2 1145 605.61 238.16
1 1152 613.03 239.62
Average: 1133.50
StdDev: 16.87
Min: 1104
Max: 1153
Spread: 49
True MV: 1134.79
Shots/sec: 0.07
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Description: mp 454-640 7gr cfe pistol
Notes 1: 1.265oal
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 251.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
4 995 551.87 249.74
3 1029 590.23 258.28
2 1027 587.94 257.78
1 1006 564.14 252.51
Average: 1014.25
StdDev: 16.52
Min: 995
Max: 1029
Spread: 34
True MV: 1015.40
Shots/sec: 0.06
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Description: 45 acp barnes +p brass
Notes 1: mp 454-640 1.265 oal 7gr ultimate pistol
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 251.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
18 983 538.64 246.73
17 995 551.87 249.74
16 981 536.45 246.23
15 973 527.73 244.22
14 992 548.55 248.99
13 998 555.20 250.50
12 991 547.44 248.74
11 979 534.26 245.73
10 969 523.40 243.22
9 983 538.64 246.73
8 974 528.82 244.47
7 958 511.59 240.46
6 956 509.45 239.96
5 966 520.17 242.47
4 952 505.20 238.95
3 981 536.45 246.23
2 964 518.02 241.96
1 953 506.26 239.20
Average: 974.89
StdDev: 14.54
Min: 952
Max: 998
Spread: 46
True MV: 976.00
Shots/sec: 0.07
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Description: mp 454-640 7.6gr longshot
Notes 1: 1.265 oal
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 251.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
7 1033 594.83 259.28
6 1049 613.39 263.30
5 1035 597.13 259.79
4 1018 577.68 255.52
3 1037 599.44 260.29
2 1036 598.29 260.04
1 1048 612.23 263.05
Average: 1036.57
StdDev: 10.37
Min: 1018
Max: 1049
Spread: 31
True MV: 1037.75
Shots/sec: 0.21
Group Size (IN): 0.00
https://i.imgflip.com/8n0i40.jpg
A noe 260 rf, it's not the same design that is sold now. It's .635 long and has a .34 meplat. The crimp groove is around .345 to the base.
Description: noe 260-rf 7.6gr longshot
Notes 1: 1.2 oal
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 261.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
3 1025 608.98 267.52
2 1020 603.05 266.22
1 1021 604.24 266.48
Average: 1022.00
StdDev: 2.65
Min: 1020
Max: 1025
Spread: 5
True MV: 1023.16
Shots/sec: 0.18
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Description: noe 260-rf 8.1gr longshot
Notes 1: 1.2 oal
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 261.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
8 1066 658.67 278.23
7 1077 672.34 281.10
6 1076 671.09 280.84
5 1074 668.60 280.31
4 1061 652.51 276.92
3 1089 687.40 284.23
2 1082 678.59 282.40
1 1074 668.60 280.31
Average: 1074.88
StdDev: 8.69
Min: 1061
Max: 1089
Spread: 28
True MV: 1076.09
Shots/sec: 0.06
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Description: noe 260-rf 7.1gr ultimate pistol
Notes 1: 1.2 oal
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 261.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
5 944 516.54 246.38
4 917 487.41 239.34
3 942 514.35 245.86
2 936 507.82 244.30
1 949 522.02 247.69
Average: 937.60
StdDev: 12.42
Min: 917
Max: 949
Spread: 32
True MV: 938.66
Shots/sec: 0.08
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Description: noe 260-rf 7.5gr ultimate pistol
Notes 1: 1.2 oal
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 261.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
5 995 573.85 259.70
4 967 542.01 252.39
3 971 546.51 253.43
2 992 570.40 258.91
1 987 564.66 257.61
Average: 982.40
StdDev: 12.64
Min: 967
Max: 995
Spread: 28
True MV: 983.52
Shots/sec: 0.14
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Description: noe 260-rf 14gr tcm
Notes 1: 1.2 oal very compressed
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 261.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
3 1018 600.69 265.70
2 1044 631.77 272.48
1 1033 618.52 269.61
Average: 1031.67
StdDev: 13.05
Min: 1018
Max: 1044
Spread: 26
True MV: 1032.84
Shots/sec: 0.18
Group Size (IN): 0.00
That is not a fair indictment of the 45 super. If a guy had an original 45 Colt and thought he could carry Ruger-only loads for a little extra power in the woods nobody here would be condemning the round.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntersdog
A couple more piles for the super. Some ranchdog 290, noe 260 rf, 200gr lee rf and some 200gr lee swc.
https://i.imgflip.com/8n9m1t.jpg
https://i.imgflip.com/8n9lwk.jpg
Are you using the 2 or 6 Lee Bullet Mold 452-200-RF?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandspider500
10mm to make life easier.
45 Super, as you had one you know the deal there. I would reflect some on why you sold it before going that way again. I think it is a sound option if it does what you need it to do.
40 Super makes no sense to me at all. But, I'm not a 40 fan, could make sense to some.
It's a 2 cavity. Yes, I should've got the 6. It hurts my back just thinking about that 2 cavity.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntersdog
Thank you very much!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandspider500
Here's a pretty interesting video of a guy shooting 45 super +, using 45acp brass but he shooting it out of a FNX 460 Rowland pistol setup and is getting some pretty impressive numbers with heavy cast.
Which has a fully supported chamber like you explained above.
https://youtu.be/wgicdKaT-aQ?feature=shared
I really didn't handgun hunt much, so I sold the 45 super to a buddy who moved to Alaska.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohen cepel
I'm pretty much set up with everything to reload the 45 super now, I just need to get some some we 200gr rnfp bullets, I found a couple websites that have some for sale.
I found a storm Lake threaded barrel, but I would prefer a kkm which I'll eventually buy because they have a deeper throat for longer bullets